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Index of logs

#arianne IRC Log for 2010-07-18

Timestamps are in server time. Show join/quit messages

01:14	-!-	lachgeist [~lachgeist<(a)>dslc-082-083-236-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #arianne
01:23	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * marauroa/src/marauroa/server/ (db/UpdateScript.java marauroa_init.sql): added id and status columns to characters table.
01:32	-!-	Laguz [~Miranda<(a)>p57B08DBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Laguz]
01:38	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * marauroa/src/marauroa/server/db/adapter/H2DatabaseAdapter.java: H2 compatibilit for adding a serial column on a table that previously had a different primary key
01:43	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * marauroa/src/marauroa/server/game/ (5 files in 3 dirs): added simple support for inactive/banned characters by not offering them in the character list
01:45	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/.cvsignore: exclude build folder from cvs
01:55	-!-	Bluelads4 [~Bluelads4<(a)>ip-95-222-160-130.unitymediagroup.de] has quit []
02:47	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: mkvii * stendhal/data/conf/zones/semos.xml: added sounds and new music from storyteller to the wizards towers outside
03:09	-!-	lachgeist [~lachgeist<(a)>dslc-082-083-236-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
07:25	-!-	gros [~lauwenmar<(a)>unaffiliated/gros] has joined #arianne
08:48	-!-	lachgeist [~lachgeist<(a)>dslc-082-083-236-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #arianne
08:56	-!-	Bluelads4 [~Bluelads4<(a)>ip-95-222-160-130.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #arianne
10:57	-!-	Nobun [~Admin<(a)>95.74.163.189] has joined #arianne
10:58	Nobun	someone know how exactly work lucky charms regarding with chance to drop items? (for example.. having a lucky char and the monster drop that item at 1%)
11:02	-!-	CodeCannon [~Dwidge<(a)>vc-41-18-102-9.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #arianne
11:05	Bluelads4	so far as I know lucky charms are not influencing the drop chances
11:05	Nobun	oh... thank for info... so... lucky charms what needed for?
11:06	Bluelads4	you are having better chances to find something at the well for example
11:06	Bluelads4	but you also need a good karma to be luckier there
11:07	Nobun	uhm... omero watched the source code of stendhal and he find that charms seems to don't have any influence neither at the well :/
11:09	-!-	gros is now known as Drawenmark
11:09	Nobun	perhaps some drop chances should be increased... I think that under 1% is too low
11:09	Nobun	maninly if lucky charms don't help
11:09	Nobun	or
11:10	Nobun	thinking to implement influence with lucky charms to drop chances
11:12	Bluelads4	well I think the items with a low drop chance are the most rarest ones, and it's fine in my eyes mostly that these are not having a higher dropchance
11:12	Nobun	sure
11:12	Bluelads4	lucky charms are owned by most players so changing that system for drop chances is maybe a bit worthless...
11:12	Nobun	but too low chances = price only for very lucked people xD
11:13	Nobun	uhm
11:13	Nobun	perhaps you right
11:13	Bluelads4	well but these are hunting a lot around and gain experiences for getting lucky charms and rare items :)
11:13	Nobun	but perhaps thinking not going under 1% of chances?
11:13	Bluelads4	wouldn't it be too easy to run around adn get everything with the first kill? :)
11:14	Bluelads4	which items are you talking about by the way with that drop chance? :)
11:14	Nobun	no I am thinking in general
11:14	Nobun	now I am searching an item, but I am not worried about if I find it or not
11:14	Bluelads4	ah ok... I cant remember any lower levelled items which are having a drop chance under 1%
11:14	Nobun	a lot xD
11:15	Bluelads4	but there are mostly then lots of different monsters who are dropping them :P
11:15	Bluelads4	hehe
11:15	Nobun	for example my friend (pimp) is trying to find black sword
11:15	Bluelads4	which level is he having?
11:15	Bluelads4	isn't he just a level under 100?
11:15	Nobun	yep is 63 if I remember well
11:15	Bluelads4	if he will find a black sword with his current level, he can't use it to 100% because there is a minimum level on it
11:16	Nobun	yep however... you asked an example of less than 1% xD
11:16	Bluelads4	and that is one of the rare items in game at all
11:16	Bluelads4	so the drop chance is right in my point of view
11:16	Bluelads4	I know ;)
11:16	Nobun	eh eh
11:17	Bluelads4	and hunting for just one item which is having a low drop chance at the same time is just time grabbing...
11:17	Nobun	my item (the one I am searching) is instead elvish shield... (I cannot try to kill green dragons with my level /weapons)
11:17	Bluelads4	maybe better to level up first and getting some other items which are also worth it to take :)
11:17	Nobun	:)
11:18	Nobun	I don't really need it but if I find it will help
11:18	Bluelads4	:) did you take a look if other creatures are dropping it?
11:18	Nobun	at my level I can only try against militia elf (0.02% xD)
11:18	Bluelads4	elvish items for example are some which are getting dropped by elves :D
11:18	Bluelads4	aren't there normal elves who are dropping it as well?
11:18	Nobun	no
11:19	Nobun	militia = 0.02%
11:19	Nobun	soldier 0.1%
11:19	Bluelads4	militia elves are mostly at one place, better saying, there are lots of them running around so if you are having some time you can maybe try to hunt for them :)
11:19	Nobun	archmage, sacerdotist, 1%
11:19	Nobun	bodyguard 5%+
11:19	Bluelads4	so the low drop chance isn't that low because there are lots of elves running around
11:20	Nobun	yep
11:20	Nobun	I infact having fun battling against elves with my level :)
11:20	Bluelads4	:)
11:20	Nobun	I am fighting in nalwor enterance
11:20	Nobun	so I can escape and recover if in danger
11:20	Bluelads4	and I bet you will be lucky soon and find your shield and than you are proud that you fought your way against the huge wall of elves :)
11:21	Nobun	eh eh thank a lot
11:21	*	Bluelads4 will press her thumbs for Nobun :)
11:21	Nobun	:)
11:22	Nobun	actually I am lv 30, atk 24, def 24 (drow sword, crow shield... both items was given to me by a player xD)
11:22	Bluelads4	hehe :) the drow sword is really nice
11:22	Nobun	eh eh
11:23	Nobun	it was a gift of a player who finded 5 of them in a day xD
11:23	Bluelads4	hehe :)
11:23	Nobun	I was lucky to be in range xD
11:23	Bluelads4	:) at the right time at the right place :D
11:24	Nobun	however... I know it sounds strange... but most of times I use another weapon
11:24	Nobun	the dark dagger
11:24	Nobun	(winned in the well)
11:24	Bluelads4	hehe :) daggers are really nice for gaining atk exp
11:24	Nobun	if find it nice most of times... very quick and increase more atk points
11:25	Bluelads4	because of there low rate
11:25	Bluelads4	*their
11:25	Nobun	sometimes (strangely) it blows better damage then drow sword xD
11:25	Bluelads4	hehe
11:26	Nobun	for example... against kobolds leaders... I find that most of times dark dagger works better than drow sword O.O
11:26	Bluelads4	daggers are really nice when you are fighting against lower creatures because of their low rate and the higher rated ones are nice for higher creatures (that's at least how I find it :D)
11:26	Bluelads4	hehe
11:26	Bluelads4	its always good to try different weapons out on different creatures
11:26	Bluelads4	it's often worth it to take more than one weapon with you :)
11:27	Nobun	I usually take only one, but sometimes two
11:27	madmetzger	you can learn about it in ados barracks, there are some npcs there who can teach you about differences
11:27	Nobun	(if one OR dagger OR drow, if two both of them)
11:27	Bluelads4	I'm having two with me mostly, a chaos dagger at the moment and a chaos sword (well sometimes I just find some other weapons on my way, so these are in my bag then too :D)
11:28	Nobun	hmm... about npcs in ados barracks...
11:28	Nobun	I heard only their suggestion about balancing (if you are lv40 you should have atk 30 def 30)
11:29	Nobun	but they seem to don't speak with me xD
11:29	Nobun	however the man watches the weapon you have equipped in that moment
11:29	Nobun	(perhaps is that last thing you are mentioning?)
11:30	madmetzger	yes, that's what i meant
11:30	Nobun	:)
11:30	Nobun	thank ;)
11:30	madmetzger	yw
11:30	Nobun	so... at last we can say that lucky charms are useless xD
11:31	Bluelads4	now when you are a well-player :D
11:31	Bluelads4	*not
11:32	Nobun	I think I find all things I could dream in well xD
11:32	Nobun	dark dagger and horned helmet
11:32	Bluelads4	carrots
11:32	Bluelads4	:D
11:33	Bluelads4	cherries
11:33	Nobun	lol if I need them I can pick from semos farm xD
11:33	Bluelads4	:D
11:33	Nobun	(carrots I meant)
11:33	Bluelads4	hehe
11:34	Nobun	however I have a good storage of them in fado bank (if I need to do soups xD)
11:34	Bluelads4	:D
11:34	-!-	CodeCannon [~Dwidge<(a)>vc-41-18-102-9.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
11:35	Nobun	however I am collecting pizza for the moment xD
11:35	Nobun	(not now, in general)
11:35	Bluelads4	:D
11:35	Bluelads4	in real as well? I should visit you then ^^ :D
11:36	Nobun	loool
11:36	Nobun	however I could learn to make them and invite you then ;)
11:38	kymara	yoriy: it just needs to change ThingCreature to take null as the queststate parameter. i think?
11:39	Bluelads4	:P <(a)> Nobun :D
11:40	-!-	CodeCannon [~Dwidge<(a)>vc-41-15-3-192.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #arianne
11:42	Nobun	Bluelads4... my I ask you another thing? the player / enemy facing have some influence in battle? (for example if I hit enemy that is watching in the opposite way - in the back - is different than if in the front) ?
11:42	Bluelads4	hmm not so far as I know, but I'm not sure about that...
11:42	kymara	lucky charms don't give yuo more 'luck' in any task
11:42	kymara	but they help prolong the luck you have.
11:42	kymara	if you believe in them :P
11:43	Bluelads4	:D
11:43	kymara	and no, facing makes no difference
11:43	Nobun	"help prolong the luck you have" what means? XD (I never understand it) xD
11:44	kymara	Nobun: do you understand karma?
11:44	-!-	Laguz [~Miranda<(a)>p57B092FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #arianne
11:44	Nobun	no
11:44	kymara	have yuo noticed you have it?
11:44	Laguz	hello all
11:44	Nobun	yep xD
11:44	CodeCannon	why isn't stendhal's fighting system interactive? i know it's hard to sync and all, but it can't be impossible>
11:44	Nobun	even if I don't know how to see my karma level and how karma works
11:44	kymara	CodeCannon: is Zedla's ?
11:44	kymara	Zelda's
11:45	CodeCannon	yes
11:45	CodeCannon	or at least, it's the type i'm thinking about
11:45	kymara	Nobun: Sarzina will tell you what it is, I mean what karma is and also what your value is. and you can see it on a scale bar in the next release. Not the actual number since the number is irrelevant
11:46	CodeCannon	where you actually press a button to swing your sword,
11:46	kymara	CodeCannon: would you like to write up the idea as a feature request?
11:46	CodeCannon	yes i would good idea :)
11:46	CodeCannon	another thing,
11:47	Laguz	the fights become more interactive with magic i think
11:47	Laguz	the click and hit system is one of many
11:47	CodeCannon	(not trying to be negative) stendhal seems to be too much about grinding than anything else, will this change eventually?
11:48	kymara	Sorry I do not know what grindign means?
11:48	kymara	*grinding
11:48	kymara	But I can point you to the ideas we have for future development.
11:49	kymara	Obviously with only a small team of volunteers these things do take time. We try to break down big ideas into small pieces and implement a bit at a time.
11:49	Laguz	and this is the correct way
11:49	CodeCannon	imho, it's good to have long gameplay, but there's a balance between a long game and diluted gameplay
11:50	Laguz	but maybe we need a codecannon too
11:50	Laguz	^^
11:50	CodeCannon	lol =B
11:50	-!-	Bluelads4 is now known as Blue_learning
11:50	Laguz	?
11:50	Laguz	its mmorpg, the gameplay is unlimited
11:51	CodeCannon	grinding means taking a long, monotonous time to get somewhere, like leveling up, getting a resource, etc
11:51	kymara	Hm.
11:51	Nobun	kymara... I will go meet Sarzina now to have an explaination about Karma... (I am in nalwor enterance now so I need some time)... after that I will make another question becouse I don't understand a thing you said... however it is better to read what Sarzina have to say before asking)
11:51	CodeCannon	i guess it comes from grinding maize which is long and boring
11:52	kymara	Nobun: Ok :) Thanks for being so patient and being willing to try the ingame explanation first
11:52	Nobun	:)
11:52	Nobun	thank you for explainations :)
11:52	kymara	CodeCannon: I see. There is a feature request about some farming device to mill more grain at once. It's actually a lot easier now you can click between teh grain fields. Also much easier now we have single click mode.
11:53	kymara	CodeCannon: for clicking directly on it to harvest.
11:53	Laguz	:DD
11:53	kymara	CodeCannon: However to answer the question about grinding in general: No, it's not something we have considered as an overall aim: 'do we want to make the player do things faster as it's boring now?'
11:53	Laguz	i dont think he mean this word for word, grinding
11:53	CodeCannon	kymara yes
11:53	kymara	(boring was more from your questions not mine)
11:54	kymara	Laguz: I know, he defined it.
11:54	Laguz	i dont think stendhal is "grinding", the ways arent far
11:54	CodeCannon	i admit i have not played this game as long as most others but, i sometimes wonder how players get 100s of hours in, i could not do it
11:54	kymara	CodeCannon: walking faster is not possible. scrolls are of course available. single click and better pathfinding already makes walking around a lot easier
11:54	Laguz	you can move in some minutes from one site of the map to the other
11:55	CodeCannon	hmm i mean things like leveling, gaining exp, etc.
11:55	kymara	harvestign grain - well - some like it, they spend time waiting to make sure they get all the grain :D others like me who cannot be bothered - buy pies .. or kill earth elementals.
11:55	kymara	CodeCannon: no we dont'plan to change teh balance of how fast you can earn xp.
11:55	CodeCannon	ok
11:55	kymara	in fact i do a lot to keep things in balance.
11:55	kymara	have you noticed how many players have hit max level?
11:56	CodeCannon	yes there's a lot with unbelievable levels
11:56	kymara	I dont' want players abel to hurtly any faster towards that - levellign up seems to be pretty fast to me already. doing the daily quests helps.
11:56	CodeCannon	hmm ok
11:56	*	Blue_learning pushes codecannon onto the hall of fame webpage... everything is possible :D
11:58	Laguz	codecannon, with which games do u compare the experience system?
12:00	Laguz	i just ask, because i know some too with different exp systems
12:03	CodeCannon	hmm i haven't really compared them, but games that do come to mind are ones such as pokemon, zelda (in the form of new weapons/abilities/health increases), space games (upgrading your ship from loot/buying).
12:03	CodeCannon	my point is probably moot, since yeh stendhal still has a lot of work to be done
12:04	Laguz	maybe not
12:04	Nobun	ok kymara I read
12:05	Nobun	some doubts remained
12:05	CodeCannon	i just find it a little boring, imho, there should be more things to do, not just quests, but something that takes advantage of the fact that it is an online multiplayer game
12:05	Nobun	may I ask?
12:05	Laguz	im working on that at moment^^
12:05	Laguz	since some days we have new portals which allows actions etc
12:05	kymara	CodeCannon: yes, we'd love more games and things that force you to work as a team
12:06	kymara	if you have good ideas then we'd be grateful of course.
12:06	Laguz	so we can do complete new quest systems, or better new adventures without "bring item"
12:06	CodeCannon	what about allowing players to change their environment?
12:07	Laguz	at work
12:07	kymara	CodeCannon: would you like to elaborate?
12:07	Laguz	i had the same idea
12:07	kymara	CodeCannon: again, any good ideas, please atcually write them down
12:07	kymara	yes this channel is logged but any good ideas should be formally written somewhere they can be found again.
12:07	Laguz	or do u mean baker and blacksmith? :)
12:08	CodeCannon	it's a 2d game, not 3d, so complex things like voxels are not strictly necessary, for example for deformable terrain
12:08	kymara	staying in ones head or in here isnt' enough.
12:08	CodeCannon	i don't think it would be too hard, somehow
12:08	CodeCannon	with what stendhal can do already
12:09	kymara	perhaps you'd like to have a go at explaining your idea more fully and better still break it down into small pieces that can be done a bit at a time?
12:10	-!-	Blue_learning [~Bluelads4<(a)>ip-95-222-160-130.unitymediagroup.de] has left #arianne []
12:10	hendrik	Something different: Is it a good idea to only display the karma bar ones the player has talked to the NPC?
12:11	hendrik	So that there is less confusing information for new players.
12:11	kymara	mm, that makes sense
12:11	kymara	it's already done as a quest i think so it's tracked if you spoke to her
12:12	kymara	would you know how to code that?
12:13	hendrik	yes.
12:13	-!-	Drawenmark is now known as gros|feeding
12:14	CodeCannon	my idea is that players could actually build things that are persistant, and working in groups they can make something massive. for example, they could dig tunnels, and push ground around, if they had a tool such as a spade. they could cut down trees to gather wood, which they could use to build walls, doors, and more complex structures. further, why not make the environment alive and dynamic? - trees drop seeds, which grow into more
12:14	kymara	hendrik: please do it. or tell me how and i'll have a go, the quest slot is learn_karma
12:14	kymara	i can edit the quest text to make her explain that she activated the view
12:15	kymara	CodeCannon: 'growers' are dynamic
12:15	kymara	and you can buy seeds which grow into flowers
12:15	CodeCannon	growers?
12:15	CodeCannon	oh
12:15	Nobun	I think it is too complex CodeCannon (mainly digging, chopping, etc)
12:16	Laguz	codecannon, growing new trees and dig tunnels would change the world in a extreme way
12:16	Nobun	plus the map have a sense... you must do the paths to certain places... any path is balanced to a specify difficulty
12:16	hendrik	I'd like to be able to decorate houses.
12:17	Nobun	if you change this you can give a lot of troubles, expecially for less levelled players
12:17	CodeCannon	yes the quests depend quite a bit on the map
12:17	CodeCannon	what about designating areas for this?
12:18	Laguz	beside, i do like the idea to cut tress to gather wood
12:18	CodeCannon	we could leave the map as it is now the same, and make a new area that allows these things?
12:19	kymara	CodeCannon: you mean, like, there is a 'fertile ground' area where you can plantseeds
12:19	Nobun	uhm... you can collect wood and it is fine in this way (you haven't to have an item to do it... axes are hard to find before certain level, so I think not a good idea)
12:19	kymara	but only there?
12:19	CodeCannon	kymara yes
12:19	kymara	CodeCannon: that is exactly what we have
12:19	kymara	for growing flowers from seeds.
12:19	kymara	hendrik: yes, but i have no good ideas how.
12:19	Nobun	(grain for example... parhaps should ripes little quickier xD)
12:19	kymara	chopping tress in some way to get wood is requested
12:20	kymara	it'd be not much difference from a grain field really.
12:20	kymara	code wise.
12:20	hendrik	I think grain ripes too fast already.
12:20	kymara	Nobun: i don't like to do things that unbalance the game.
12:20	CodeCannon	hmm i guess these ideas weren't really in stendhal's vision?
12:21	kymara	Nothing was.
12:21	Nobun	eh eh it was only an impression (becouse most of times, when I need to harvest grain, someone harvest it xD)
12:21	kymara	Stendhal was a game started to test multi zone capability
12:21	kymara	5years ago
12:21	Nobun	befor me xD
12:21	hendrik	stendhal's vison was to be a test case.
12:21	CodeCannon	hmm
12:21	kymara	it was not 'supposed' to turn into this
12:21	kymara	we have evolved it.
12:22	Nobun	question about karma xD : 1) Karma is also improved in fighting? (if you kill an enemy) or only if you do a task (like NPC seems to say)
12:23	kymara	Nobun: Ok, lets explain karma.
12:23	kymara	sarzina told you how much you have?
12:23	Nobun	yes
12:23	kymara	she told yuo how to earn it?
12:23	Nobun	about 200 (I don't remember the exact number)
12:24	kymara	why would you get good karma
12:24	Nobun	....
12:24	Nobun	Sarzina told about task
12:24	CodeCannon	is karma on a negative scale?
12:24	kymara	yes.
12:24	Laguz	didnt we had a wiki with the magic system and suggestions? cause i cant find it
12:24	kymara	CodeCannon: your karma can go negative.
12:24	Nobun	but I asked if also improved in battle
12:25	kymara	Laguz: check teh real life meeting pages.
12:25	Laguz	thx
12:25	Nobun	she said that good karma have good influence in battle
12:25	kymara	Nobun: yes ui am starting from scratch
12:25	kymara	Nobun: Correct. So, you earn karma by doing good things
12:25	kymara	a task, say
12:25	kymara	What point is having good karma?
12:25	kymara	It brings you luck. When you do something needing a bit luck, you store of karma is looked at.
12:26	kymara	did you have good karma (+ve) or bad karma (-ve)
12:26	Nobun	good
12:26	kymara	also, do you have as much karma as this tasks 'needs' ideally
12:26	CodeCannon	because, when i had about 100 karma, carmen told my avatar that it cannot be healed, but at 0 karma, it could, so i'm wondering whether -100 is good, and +100 is bad
12:26	kymara	(normally - yes - each it of karma used at once is little)
12:26	kymara	CodeCannon: please check teh faq to see why carmen wouldn't deal you.
12:26	kymara	Nobun: so, what happens when you are doing this tasks that needs some luck
12:27	kymara	if you have some good luck to use, it gets applied to the task and the outcome has more chance to be favourable
12:27	CodeCannon	hmm so training w/ another player doesn't affect karma count?
12:27	kymara	that 'used up' some of your good luck
12:27	kymara	CodeCannon: moment.
12:27	kymara	let me finish?
12:28	kymara	Nobun: if you had -ve karma when you were doing this task, then it gives you bad luck in the task and the outcome is less prone to be favourable.
12:28	kymara	again that uses up someof the -ve karma and you get closer to 0 karma
12:28	kymara	Nobun: is it clear so far?
12:28	kymara	and CodeCannon too
12:28	Nobun	hmm not at all
12:28	Nobun	more or less yes
12:28	CodeCannon	yes
12:28	kymara	would a worked example help?
12:28	Nobun	but I miss a thing
12:28	Nobun	yes thanks
12:29	kymara	ok, and what do you miss?
12:30	Nobun	"task that require karma" - using karma = become negative.... and you could reach 0 Karma when completed
12:30	Nobun	this mechanism is something to understand with an example
12:30	kymara	alright
12:30	Nobun	for example... is the second phishing exam a task of this sort?
12:31	kymara	lets imagine you refused annie's request to get icecream
12:31	Nobun	ok
12:31	kymara	you had say 0 karma before as you were pretty new
12:31	kymara	and now you have -10
12:31	kymara	for being so mean to her, ok?
12:31	Nobun	ok
12:31	kymara	then you go to use the wishing well.
12:32	kymara	that is something that requires some luck. so, you throw your money in, and we check your karma
12:32	kymara	it's negative, so we work out how much to affect your luck (that's a bit randomised)
12:33	kymara	it's limited to whateverthe well wants to use, so althought you have -10 in all, the actual amount doesn't matter, the well will take maximum -1 to 1 at once say
12:34	kymara	we roll a dice and decide to use -0.5 karma this time and apply that onto the % chance you had anyway at the well too
12:34	kymara	(how that's actually done as a calculation doesn't matter)
12:34	kymara	we subtract -0.5 karma from your karma amount ( -10 -- 0.5 = -9.5)
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12:34	kymara	since some of your bad karma was used up - you had an experience of bad luck.
12:35	Nobun	remaining in this example...
12:36	Nobun	if you are searching a thing that have 10% of chance (for example)... the total final chance is 0.5% ?
12:36	kymara	no
12:37	kymara	not really, that's up to the 'thing' and the calculation for it
12:37	kymara	i didn't think that matters in this example
12:37	Nobun	ok
12:37	lachgeist	what to do to avoid loosing the good karma? Dont fight, as lucky drops use it up? (sorry for interupting)
12:37	kymara	i'm just trying to get across the way it works
12:37	kymara	lachgeist: karma does not affect drops.
12:37	hendrik	lachgeist, drops don't use it, but fighting strong creatures does.
12:37	kymara	lachgeist: karma does help in successful fighting
12:38	kymara	provided that it's not some creature you could kill easily enough without a bit luck
12:38	kymara	here is where the lucky charm comes in a bit.
12:38	kymara	each time the karma decision is made, karma is used
12:38	kymara	with lucky charm you get the same outcome but half the karma that shoudl be used is used
12:38	kymara	can you see that this means it prolongs both good and bad luck?
12:39	Nobun	yep
12:39	kymara	lachgeist: the idea is not to build and build your karma levels
12:39	Nobun	so 2 lucky charms = losing 1/4 ?
12:39	kymara	lachgeist: it should always tend to zero, in fact.
12:39	Nobun	ah
12:39	kymara	Nobun: no, they don't have any additional effect for having more than one.
12:39	kymara	Nobun: but if players wanna carry more, fine
12:39	kymara	superstitious bunch :P
12:40	kymara	lachgeist: if it grows huge and huge in normal play we have got the balancing wrong.
12:40	Nobun	so only one is needed... more than one is uselles (tecnically speaking xD)
12:40	kymara	aye
12:41	kymara	can you also see yet why really the amount you have is a bit irrelevant?
12:41	kymara	i mean, the exact precise amount
12:42	Nobun	hm... not
12:42	Nobun	it seems to me that high amount = high luck
12:42	hendrik	Nobun, no.
12:42	kymara	each task (fishing, fighting, even dying) requiring any luck will only look to use a limited amount at a time
12:43	kymara	lets use dying as the example because it uses the most, 100 karma i believe
12:43	kymara	if you have 1000 karma, it says, oh, cool, that is more than 100
12:43	kymara	we can use at least 100
12:43	kymara	and it then decides how much to use between 0 and 100
12:43	kymara	if you have 100000, same thing. it then decides how much to use between 0 and 100
12:44	kymara	if you have only 50, ok, it decides how much to use between 0 and 50.
12:44	kymara	in fact it's not even 0. it always tries to use at least 20% of the amount it's looking for
12:44	kymara	sorry
12:44	kymara	so that should have been 20 to 100 and 10 to 50 above.
12:44	kymara	anyway do you see that?
12:44	Nobun	yes
12:44	kymara	so most htings only use say 0.5, 1, 0.05 even, karma, at a time
12:44	Nobun	I understand
12:45	kymara	so having 10 is the same as having 100000
12:45	kymara	to most purposes.
12:45	Nobun	ok
12:45	kymara	yay
12:45	kymara	do you wanna see the scale?
12:45	Nobun	so the important thing is if good of bad, not matter how many
12:45	kymara	yes, pretty much.
12:46	kymara	since it does get used it's still better for you to have 1000 than 10
12:46	Nobun	(perhaps the amount can be important to know how many karma you need to pass from bad to good xD)
12:46	kymara	because that means that you have longer to keep using it up.
12:46	Nobun	:)
12:46	kymara	CodeCannon: did you find the answer to carman's bad aura response?
12:46	kymara	carmen
12:46	kymara	CodeCannon: and the other thing you asked which i asked you to wait on?
12:47	kymara	do you see the answer to that now, does training affect karma?
12:47	kymara	(karma is independent of whether carmen will heal you)
12:47	lachgeist	So karma cant get negative by luck-events? Only by doing bad things?
12:48	kymara	lachgeist: correct!
12:48	kymara	in fact we need to fix something
12:48	Nobun	the train affect the Karma if I understood well (becouse you attacked a player)
12:48	kymara	it can't easily to get the exact value 0
12:48	kymara	you end up with like 0.00000125 :D
12:49	kymara	Nobun: it affects karma because it is fighting
12:49	kymara	so if the player is a lot lot weaker than you you don't needgoodluck to hit him
12:49	kymara	but he is probably similar level, so it uses it up, yes
12:49	Nobun	xD
12:50	Nobun	I thought it would affect Karma becouse also attacking is a bad action xD
12:50	kymara	hm
12:50	kymara	killing a player may give you negative karma (as opposed to using up karma)
12:50	kymara	i am not sure.
12:51	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/semos/tavern/market/OfferExpirer.java: added java doc
12:51	Nobun	xD I will kill a player only if he will try to kill me xD (I don't like to attack players)
12:52	Nobun	thank for your explainations and for your time, kymara
12:52	kymara	Nobun: you're welcome.
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12:57	Nobun	hi omero :)
12:57	omero	hi Nobun
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13:03	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/trade/Market.java: added java doc
13:13	Laguz	kymara, i have some suggestions to spells and the system general, shall i add them to the meeting-page?
13:14	hendrik	Laguz, it may be a good idea to create a page dedicated to speels.
13:14	Laguz	ok
13:14	hendrik	and copy the meeting content there, adding a hint on the meeting page that the current state of dicussion can be seen on that page.
13:15	Laguz	ok how can i create a new page?
13:16	hendrik	just add a [[link]] in the meeting page, save it and then click on the red link.
13:18	Laguz	ah ok
13:18	Laguz	thx
13:26	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/trade/Market.java: added java doc to public constants
13:29	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/trade/Earning.java: added java doc
13:32	Nobun	the def mutiplyer formula... is that? boots + legs + cloak + helmet + (armor * 2) + (shield * 4)
13:32	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/trade/Offer.java: added java doc
13:32	Nobun	(I tried to calculate it experimentally)
13:35	kymara	i think cloak is 1.5
13:35	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/trade/Dateable.java: corrected java doc a bit
13:36	kymara	http://arianne.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/RPEntity.java?view=markup
13:36	kymara	yes, it is.
13:36	Nobun	yup :)
13:38	Nobun	boots + legs + helmet + (cloak * 1.5) + (armor * 2) + (shield * 4)
13:38	Nobun	now should be correct ;)
13:39	kymara	we have thought about integrating those values into the actual def of the items
13:39	kymara	to make it transparent, the effect.
13:40	kymara	madmetzger: did you see my comment yesterday about getting the rat hunter achievement when an existing player of mine killed a thing?
13:41	kymara	do you want me to make a bug report? i think that you should not be checking for that except when a rat is killed.
13:41	kymara	we need to think about existing players too.
13:43	madmetzger	yes, i read that comment
13:43	hendrik	I think we should try to "recover" achievements in the update script.
13:43	hendrik	player update, i mean.
13:43	madmetzger	you mean UpdateConverter?
13:43	hendrik	only do it if the number of achievements is 0 and the player is not new or so.
13:44	hendrik	and we might have the achievement code active for one release without actually showing anything to the player.
13:44	madmetzger	sounds like a good idea to check them initially
13:45	kymara	so that they dont' see these messages for achievements they really got some time ago?
13:45	madmetzger	would be a good idea as some players would have reached a lot of achievements already
13:46	kymara	ok.
13:46	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/creature/ItemGuardCreature.java: just correcting some misleading javadoc
13:46	kymara	what is newbie25?
13:46	kymara	i didn't think that was a well written achievement name :D
13:47	madmetzger	otherwise a high level player might be spammed with a lot of messages
13:47	madmetzger	no, it was just a test yet
13:47	kymara	(I got told congratulations for achieving it when i killed something else)
13:47	kymara	ok.
13:47	kymara	when do we plan to branch, we should announce sme tidy up time and feature freeze.
13:48	madmetzger	i'd like to encourage everyone to fill in the todos on http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Stendhal_Achievement_Ideas
13:48	kymara	Laguz: this will affect your wizards circle quest, i saw you activated the door so you need to be sure it is totally ready and we need to be sure it does what we want.
13:49	madmetzger	kymara, can you make a bug report on it?
13:49	hendrik	madmetzger, will you be upset if I suggest to remove the achievement code from next weeks release?
13:49	madmetzger	no, it is not very ready yet. it needs work on several things yet
13:49	hendrik	I think there is still so much to do.
13:49	*	hendrik nods: thank you.
13:49	madmetzger	yes
13:50	madmetzger	no problem
13:50	kymara	There is already plenty for the next release, too
13:50	kymara	I mean, it is looking good :)
13:52	madmetzger	yes :)
13:52	Laguz	kymara, i couldnt follow. What affects my quest?
13:53	Laguz	normaly im ready with it, except the gramar of some texts
13:53	madmetzger	should we maybe add a special message on releas to encourage turning on sound because there changed a lot?
13:57	hendrik	Is there a new quest in this release?
13:57	kymara	hendrik: yes, Laguz's. If it is ready
13:57	kymara	Laguz: I said: The next release will be soon, please check you are really happy that your quest is going to be active in it.
13:57	kymara	Laguz: and yes, I will check those texts.
13:58	kymara	It is a lot to test. I mean, a lot of maps ad so on. Are areas like 'malleus plain' also active now?
13:58	hendrik	Oh, sorry
13:58	*	hendrik poins Laguz at CHANGES.txt
13:59	kymara	yoriy, i have tested a rather simple fix to ThingCreature
13:59	kymara	I don't know if you were already working on it.
14:04	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/core/engine/SingletonRepository.java: added java doc
14:13	Laguz	kymara, no. Only the wizards tower and zekiels quest will be in th erelease
14:15	kymara	Laguz: ok. i haven't fully explored up there yet, where do these plains come in?
14:21	Laguz	the plains will be interiors
14:22	kymara	sorry, I meant: 'how'
14:22	Laguz	with portals later
14:22	Laguz	quest-checking conditions
14:22	kymara	still too specific
14:22	kymara	I don'tmean code.
14:23	kymara	I mean story
14:23	Laguz	ah ok
14:23	kymara	is it written with the original quest idea on the wiki?
14:23	kymara	if so i will just go read it there.
14:23	Laguz	the wizards give quests and the player can enter the plains then
14:23	Laguz	yes
14:23	Laguz	i think so
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15:19	madmetzger	hendrik, i've found out why short urls and urlrewrite don't seem to be working
15:20	madmetzger	if i change the document root for the apache to the website folder the short urls work again
15:20	hendrik	i think i fixed that yesterday?!
15:21	madmetzger	i just tried it...
15:21	hendrik	did you update?
15:22	madmetzger	yes
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15:39	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/doc/CHANGES.txt: sorted
15:46	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * marauroa/ (7 files in 6 dirs): added less confusing variants of hasCharacter
15:47	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/ (3 files in 3 dirs): updated marauroa
15:51	kymara	Laguz: did you remove the response to #wizrads?
15:51	kymara	wizards
15:54	kymara	I think that we should put the giving -scroll - action into when you say 'wizards'
15:55	kymara	also I think when you arrive back and say hi he should mention #know then as well as #start
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16:34	Laguz	kymara, no i didnt removed #wizards
16:34	kymara	ok, i see it is in a separate place
16:35	kymara	is it ok that when you say start he doesn't just give it to you, the parchemnt
16:35	Laguz	he does
16:35	kymara	only when you say #wizards and are in that quest state
16:35	kymara	Laguz: is it ok if i change it so that, when you say start he doesn't just give it to you, the parchemnt
16:35	kymara	That is what I meant -- ^
16:35	Laguz	"start" doesnt works anymore if the quest is finished
16:36	kymara	That is not what I am saying
16:36	kymara	do you mind to take a moment to read what I asked
16:36	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): only show karma indicator if the feature is enabled
16:36	kymara	or shall i just make the changes and you can have a look see what you think?
16:36	Laguz	i know what u mean, but i see no reason
16:37	kymara	giving them the parchment when they say start makes them think they got the information they need
16:37	kymara	they'll just say #send then
16:37	kymara	you change dteh behaviour.
16:37	Laguz	the explanation of zekiel about the wizards are different to the parchment
16:37	kymara	before you had:
16:37	Laguz	the parchment is just a hint for the quest
16:38	kymara	you might need to #know things, and i will #send you
16:38	kymara	we agreed it's a good test to see if they do say #know
16:38	kymara	when he explained what you need to #know he also said #wizards
16:38	kymara	and at the stage you could learn about the wizards.
16:38	kymara	so, you changed the behaviour.
16:39	kymara	you had it now that he says, when you say start: you might need to #know things, and i will #send you, and here is a parchment.
16:39	kymara	I propose we do this:
16:39	kymara	you might need to #know things, and i will #send you
16:39	kymara	#know gives the info as before and prompts about #wizards as before
16:39	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/npc/action/EnableFeatureAction.java: implemented an enable feature action
16:39	kymara	you get the parchment only if you say wizards
16:39	kymara	and in that quest state.
16:39	kymara	ok
16:39	kymara	?
16:40	Laguz	u mean, u want to remove the #wizards
16:40	hendrik	kymara, i have not changed the NPC because you said you wanted to modify the text, too.
16:40	kymara	no.
16:40	Laguz	aah
16:40	Laguz	ok i see
16:40	kymara	Laguz: shall i do what i was suggesting and you can see it?
16:40	Laguz	i know what u mean
16:40	kymara	maybe it is better than you trying to read my explanation.
16:40	Laguz	its a good idea, but i just wanted the hint automaticly
16:40	Laguz	u know
16:40	kymara	i dont' agree
16:41	Laguz	not that the players have to ask again
16:41	kymara	i think they are then much less likely to say #know
16:41	kymara	so you really lost the power of that test
16:41	kymara	can we try it my way please?
16:41	Laguz	thats why i moved #know to the begin of the text
16:41	Laguz	top*
16:41	kymara	yes, and you lostthe power of it
16:41	kymara	they think they got what they need to know.
16:42	kymara	Laguz: another thing. why are the quest states set for each step?
16:42	kymara	isn't only the 'last step' one really needed?
16:43	Laguz	the quest states are just for the portal which gives the cansdle, nothing else
16:43	kymara	ok, so you don't want the candle giving the portal again.
16:43	Laguz	so players cant get more candles and xp
16:43	Laguz	yes
16:43	kymara	when you return to him in state last_step which is he meant to say:
16:43	kymara	Very well, adventurer! You have passed the practical test. You can now enter the spire whenever you want.
16:43	kymara	or
16:43	kymara	Greetings! You have so far failed the practical test. Tell me, if you want me to #send you on it again " + "right now, or if there is anything you want to #learn about it first.
16:43	kymara	currently he does either.
16:44	kymara	the conditions fit both.
16:44	kymara	(I have found a few errors like this but normally it's clear to me how to fix it - in this case i want to check)
16:44	Laguz	care
16:44	Laguz	there are two zekiels
16:44	kymara	btw i slightly modified that text there, but it's the one from if you return in any state
16:44	Laguz	the first doesnt finish the quest
16:45	kymara	uh, laguz, this is what code comments are for!!!!
16:45	kymara	ok, i will add in these comments.
16:45	kymara	it really looks like a bug at the moment.
16:45	kymara	i have added in a lot of other comments already, just helpful things to other developers like:
16:45	kymara	. // player got to the last level of the tower
16:45	Laguz	believe me, the quest states are really working plz dont change them
16:45	kymara	I have not changed any queststates
16:46	kymara	i can show you an example of something i changed
16:46	Laguz	there is only one point
16:46	kymara	you had multiple responses, come try it on test server.
16:46	kymara	come try it, please, if you dont' believe me
16:46	Laguz	when the players dont talk to the second zekiel befor they leave the tower, they have to maker the quest again
16:47	kymara	[15:47] <Zekiel the guardian> You havent finished the practical test. Are you ready to start with it, or do you want to know more about the wizards first?
16:47	kymara	i just brought him the stuff.
16:47	kymara	so that is one fix i made
16:48	kymara	it is line 63 in the file currently on cvs but i am working on that now
16:48	kymara	new QuestActiveCondition(QUEST_SLOT),
16:48	kymara	i changed to : new QuestInStateCondition(QUEST_SLOT, "start"),
16:48	kymara	so he doesn't say that when you say quest, if you did already bring candles
16:49	kymara	thats what i meant more when i said about duplicate responses. and i'll add in the hint that zekiel is a different npc as it's nto so clear
16:49	Laguz	???
16:49	Laguz	the candles are a part of the quest, not another quest
16:49	kymara	hendrik: i haven't done it yet so you can edit it.
16:49	kymara	Laguz: come to test server if you want to see it.
16:49	kymara	or try on your own.
16:49	Laguz	ill come
16:50	kymara	complete the beeswax and iron part
16:50	kymara	then say quest a few times
16:50	kymara	you will see two diferent responses and one is wrong.
16:59	hendrik	madmetzger, I am currently on test server with Laguz, kymara and story. kymara is not in ghostmode but offline in my buddy list.
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17:52	storyteller	Cassandras description has an error: There is "beautifull" instead of "beautiful".
17:53	kymara	Thanks, storyteller
17:53	kymara	on the parchement also or just his text?
17:54	storyteller	well, I looked at Cassandra
17:55	kymara	ok, thanks.
17:55	storyteller	You're welcome :)
17:58	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/semos/wizardstower/WizardsGuardStatueNPC.java: spelling/grammar fixes mainly in zekiel's description of each wizard.
17:58	kymara	still working on quest file itself because i want to check it then i need to go through each wizard file
17:58	kymara	Laguz: arethere any wizard files not to consider yet?
17:59	kymara	hendrik: i am getting a compile error. i did update both stendhal and marauroa
17:59	kymara	and i cleaned and rebuilt
17:59	kymara	if (!DAORegister.get().get(CharacterDAO.class).hasCharacter(null, target))
17:59	hendrik	sorry.
17:59	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/actions/admin/JailAction.java: updated marauroa
17:59	kymara	on line 48 of games.stendhal.server.actions.admin.J...
17:59	kymara	ok
18:02	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): splitted quantityplnoun into quantityplnoun and quantityplnounWithAForOne
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18:24	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/ZekielsPracticalTestQuest.java:
18:24	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: Corrected spelling and grammar in the quest texts, fixed some conditions. Added
18:24	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: comments. Formatted the AndConditions and MultipleActions for easier reading.
18:24	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: Don't use Arrays.asList for only one trigger. give the parchment when you ask
18:24	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: about #wizards, not automatically before you go. Move part of the 'know'
18:26	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/ZekielsPracticalTestQuest.java: removed my TODO: about the getHistory step as this is now filled in, in the new java-only style and with the major steps 'documented' for the player
18:28	kymara	Laguz: I think the getHistory method is much more readable with the new style that yoriy added support for. So I updated your quest to use it too. Do you think anything else should be added, do you understand it?
18:31	kymara	Oh. players marco and storyteller are on my buddy list on test server
18:32	kymara	but not online, so that's the opposite to what hendrik had earlier.
18:32	kymara	Laguz: Cassandra is offering to make ice scrolls.
18:33	kymara	She wants just a 'scroll' and says that zekiel will help me
18:34	kymara	Laguz: she says he's a storekeeper - so he should respond to 'offer' ?
18:34	kymara	These scrolls seem like magic spells, a bit ..
18:35	kymara	Laguz: is the ice scroll supposed to do anythign yet?
18:41	Laguz	kymara, zekiel doesnt offers anything in normal way
18:41	Laguz	the players have to ask him for items
18:43	Laguz	the ice scroll is not supposed to do anything for the next release
18:44	Laguz	it actualy works for a quest, but i didnt add it
18:45	Laguz	the portal is not active
18:47	Laguz	if it disturbs we can deactivate it
18:47	Laguz	but i dont feel it could do any trouble
18:47	hendrik	I am concerned about this.
18:47	hendrik	the whole tower things, i mean.
18:48	hendrik	This is really complex, and lots of inconsistencies.
18:48	hendrik	it will need a lot of time to properly test this and fix all those.
18:50	kymara	Laguz: I meant that as a store keeper we should expect him to reply to 'offer'
18:50	Laguz	hendrik, actualy most of the tower is unused
18:50	kymara	and that saying only the item name you want and not 'buy itemname' may confuse players
18:50	kymara	I can see that you pay him in wood.
18:50	Laguz	he doesnt?
18:51	Laguz	because he doesnt sell
18:51	kymara	he is a store keeper
18:51	kymara	he doesn't sell in the sense that SellerNPCs do in stendhal
18:51	kymara	but why should he not understand the word offer? (this is me thinking from a player, and real life, point of view)
18:52	-!-	storyteller is now known as story_away
18:52	kymara	Ok, so here are the tasks I can see ahead, can I list them a moment?
18:52	hendrik	kymara, it might be a good idea to just fix the language for now.
18:52	hendrik	and then we should collect bug reports.
18:53	kymara	ok
18:53	kymara	well that was what i was going to say
18:53	kymara	- fix the language on each wizard in the tower
18:53	kymara	- test them and make bug reports for items which claim to have a use but don't yet
18:53	kymara	- test expected behaviours based on their roles
18:54	Laguz	oh, i didnt realized that i didnt added "offer" for him
18:54	Laguz	of course he should
18:55	Laguz	he can reply the same like for "store/storekeeper"
18:56	kymara	so, what about all this work which still needs to be done ... if you say that most of the tower is unused, do you think it's better to not allow access there yet?
18:56	kymara	or what about: let the wizards walk about there but never let them converse with you?
18:56	kymara	they can all be too busy and go straight back to idle?
18:56	kymara	then it is only zekiel and his items that he offers to fix
18:57	Laguz	oh, the opther wizards do
18:57	Laguz	its just cassandra which offers the scroll
18:57	Laguz	the other wizards just talk to the players and say that they are to busy
18:58	kymara	why must all teh language be fixed before we can make bug reports hendrik?
18:58	kymara	that is rather a lot of pressure on me
19:02	Laguz	i feel a bit guilty that u have so much work to debug the towe :/
19:02	Laguz	for when have u planed the next release?
19:03	hendrik	kymara, sorry i was refering to the work you have already done.
19:03	kymara	i already committed that
19:03	kymara	mostly, i'm still doing a bit more.
19:04	hendrik	sorry, i missed that.
19:04	kymara	i did the quests, and the npc called zekiel the guardian.
19:11	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/semos/wizardstower/WizardsGuardStatueSpireNPC.java: mostly just formating to make it readable, but also corrected some spelling, a wrong gem name (no emeralds here) and the same descriptions of the wizards which were already corrected in the other file but copied here
19:13	kymara	Laguz: we usually release every4 weeks, at the end of the month.
19:27	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/tests/games/stendhal/server/actions/AdministrationActionTest.java: fixed test case for new hasCharacter behaviour
19:32	Laguz	kymara, is emerald already plural?
19:33	Laguz	oh wait
19:33	Laguz	i changed emeraldf to sapphire
19:35	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added optional parameter to "quantityplnoun" to specify the replacement for "1". If it is "a" or "A" it is automatically replaced by "an" or "A" if required by the noun.
19:36	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/ (8 files in 6 dirs): use new quantityplnoun method
19:36	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/ (11 files in 7 dirs): use new quantityplnoun method
19:38	kymara	yes but one reference to it remained.
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20:07	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/LearnAboutKarma.java: Activate karma indicator feature when you learn about karma for the first time, and make sarzina refer to it in context of your karma, changing her replies to better fit the scales visible there.
20:15	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tests/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/LearnAboutKarmaTest.java: updated test to new behaviour and added some more values to test
20:20	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/semos/wizardstower/ (7 files): Fixed the texts for the 7 wizards in the spire of the tower
20:22	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/nalwor/tunnel/ThingCreature.java: Fixing no amulet by killing thing - ID: 3030908 reported by snakespionase: don't require that quest is in state start, just it is not completed.
20:22	kymara	Now that the karma bar is there i feel that I want to see an HP bar too :)
20:23	hendrik	hp?
20:23	hendrik	xp?
20:23	kymara	HP
20:23	kymara	it shows on the main screen, yes, but sometimes that can be pretty crowded - I wondered about showing it also on the stats panel
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20:38	kymara	Laguz: is https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2956004&group_id=1111&atid=101111 still a current problem?
20:46	-!-	lachgeist [~lachgeist<(a)>dslc-082-083-236-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #arianne
20:48	yoriy	hello kymara
20:49	kymara	hi yoriy
20:49	kymara	What do people think about pets with playernames?
20:49	kymara	nuggel opened a bugreport on this quite sometime ago:
20:49	kymara	https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2796794&group_id=1111&atid=101111
20:50	kymara	It would be easy now to check that the name isn't a player name, I think. it would not place undue load on the server.
20:50	yoriy	probably we can add pets type to the end of players name automatically
20:50	Bluelads4	hmm I wouldn't see it as such a big problem
20:51	kymara	I found it annoying when a player was banned and he made a twink, naming his cat after the banned player
20:51	kymara	and likewise when players have named pets after me (childish, of course)
20:51	kymara	yoriy: I did not prpose to change name of pet.
20:51	kymara	yoriy: I would use the same check now used before adding a buddy
20:51	yoriy	ah, i understood it wrong
20:52	kymara
20:52	kymara	yoriy: I dont know if you saw my message but i made a simple fix to the ThingCreature
20:53	yoriy	thank you very much kymara for fixing that problem; i still didnt read logs, but updated sources anf found that. I fixed it too yesterday by other way then you, and decided to speak with you about it firstly
20:55	yoriy	i worked hard all day and have almost none energy to do anything :-)
20:55	-!-	story_away is now known as storyteller
20:56	kymara	I should have said here that I was looking at it, sorry.
20:56	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/HungryJoshua.java: use the new EnableFeatureAction to turn on the keyring
20:56	kymara	Do you want me to revert my change?
20:56	yoriy	no no, its ok if problem solved
20:57	yoriy	probably i make mistake when didnt used UpdateConverter when rewrote this quest, so it maybe good idea to use it later
20:58	kymara	that was not the isue
20:58	kymara	the quest states change as you kill creatures now
20:59	kymara	but the thing checked for one quest state only: start
20:59	yoriy	right
20:59	kymara	so that is not a mistake with the converter
20:59	yoriy	i mean other: now we have unnecessary code to support both "start" and "started" quest states, which is not good
21:00	kymara	ok, but this is unrelated to the problem of his drops
21:02	yoriy	of course, but with using UpdateConverter we could change ItemGuardCreature to check only "started" condition, and that would solve our problem
21:08	kymara	they are not always started.
21:09	kymara	the quest state is changing as the player kills creatures, now, isn't it?
21:09	yoriy	no
21:09	kymara	it seems to be to me.
21:09	yoriy	it is, but in other questindex
21:09	yoriy	*questindexes
21:09	kymara	in this quest there is no difference, checking that it's not completed it just as good.
21:10	kymara	and that was already supported by the code.
21:11	yoriy	well, if we will use UpdateConverter to change old state "start" on new state "started;;;;;;;;mm" :-) we will eliminate using of "start" quest state in overall quest, including this thing class
21:12	yoriy	and thing would drop amulet to us :-)
21:12	kymara	I am not arguing against it.
21:12	kymara	I am just saying that issue is now fixed.
21:13	yoriy	right, i just said it is probably my big mistake. It was my first experience of changing such complex quest, so i was scared by using UpdateConverter and left old style code unchanged
21:15	yoriy	(the same for KillSpiders; thanx god they dont drop mythical eggs) :-)
21:16	kymara	It's not a big problem, please don't be worrying
21:17	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/ (19 files in 4 dirs): use new quantityplnoun method
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21:21	yoriy	ok, i will try to not worrying :-) thinx agasin kym. Will go to sleep, i hope tomorrow i will revive enough to do something useful :-)
21:21	yoriy	*again :-)
21:22	kymara	Sleep well, yoriy
21:22	storyteller	Good night
21:23	yoriy	bye guys :-)
21:23	-!-	yoriy is now known as yoriy-sleeping
21:24	storyteller	I will also go to bed now. Good night, see you tomorrow :)
21:24	kymara	night storyteller
21:25	storyteller	:)
21:26	-!-	storyteller [~storytell<(a)>p57B74057.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
21:34	kymara	hendrik: if you want a picture of a separator i thin i have to add a child to the panel
21:34	kymara	for the settings panel
21:34	kymara	shall i keep looking at it?
21:36	kymara	actually i think this would look really bad
21:36	kymara	i'll try about labels
21:41	madmetzger	hendrik, i can have a look tm, i just returned from football.
21:43	hendrik	kymara, is it possible to make the space after the third button a bit larger?
21:44	kymara	yes but i wondered if you wanted a little line or soemthing
21:44	kymara	making the space bigger is very easy
21:44	hendrik	i think that may be sufficient to group the buttons.
21:47	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/wt/SettingsPanel.java: make separator spacing wider
21:49	hendrik	kymara, thank you.
21:50	hendrik	and thanks madmetzger for the javadoc.
21:53	Laguz	kymara, sorry i was afk. The bug with the collision never affected my maps, it was just something that i realized. I dont know if its still a bug
21:54	madmetzger	hendrik, you're welcome. good that you pointed it out
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23:01	omero	I was thinking ... other than houses ... why are not also rented private growing areas where one can plant seeds for tomatos, grain, mushrooms...
23:01	omero	seeds would cost of course
23:02	omero	or can be gained through a quest
23:02	hendrik	omero, currently we already have public growing areas.
23:02	hendrik	and you can buy seeds.
23:02	omero	hendrik, for tomatoes? you would need to setup armed garrison :)
23:03	hendrik	i am not sure which type of plans can be grown.
23:03	omero	beware! armed response. no trespassing
23:04	Bluelads4	there are two flower-types which you can plant in the north of semos
23:04	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/actions/admin/StoreMessageOnBehalfOfPlayerAction.java: Stores a message on behalf (for postman to deliver) for admins >= level 2000 (e.g. postman)
23:04	omero	mmm... think of it. one rents an house.. he could then buy the pots where the tomato are growing from the pottery
23:04	kymara	atthe moment seeds can only make a FlowerGrower
23:05	kymara	not the other types of grower.
23:05	kymara	I dont' knwo how much work it would be to extend it
23:05	omero	growers could be items, right?
23:05	kymara	inside peoples houses are already fertile grounds, by the way
23:06	kymara	omero: I don't know of any portable growers.
23:06	kymara	they are entities on the ground like a well, portal, chest
23:06	omero	so they would need to be coded at a fixed location
23:06	kymara	i think that there are requests about buying seeds to plant items.
23:07	omero	is that what you saying?
23:07	kymara	omero: have you tried seeds?
23:07	kymara	seeds are portable, you can try sowing them anywhere, they only flourish on what we call ''fertile ground''
23:07	omero	nope, kymara ... I just checked the possibility to buy them at jenny
23:07	kymara	and once you have sown the plant, then no, it's not portable :D
23:08	kymara	you don't pick up a plant when you have planted the seed and it's still a seedling unless you are a really ppor gardener.
23:08	kymara	you wait till it's mature then pick it.
23:08	omero	mmm
23:09	omero	that would work with tomatos too... if there were seeds available, wouldn't it?
23:09	kymara	yes, if the seeds were told to make a vegetable grower to type tomato
23:09	omero	so...
23:09	kymara	as i said atm they make flower growers of type lilia or daisies
23:09	kymara	feel free to take a look at it.
23:09	omero	I'll certainly will
23:10	omero	I was asking to check if it's a viable idea...
23:10	kymara	if you want something aroudn rented areas, i think that is what we had in mind when we started wotk on Gates
23:10	kymara	yes, it's what seeds were developed for
23:10	kymara	flowers were just the first use
23:10	kymara	and we haven't gone beyond that.
23:11	kymara	other things to do too :)
23:11	omero	sure
23:11	omero	btw
23:11	omero	did you have a chance to take a look at the man with the hoe?
23:12	omero	I want to bring that to a usable state quickly
23:12	omero	and also work on a 'fruit pie' maker (apples and cherries)
23:12	kymara	I looked at the picture and I thought it was fine.
23:12	kymara	Was there something else to look at? Was it important I saw an animated version?
23:13	omero	yes... I'd like some feedback on the animation look
23:13	kymara	kiheru is the artistic one
23:13	omero	before I'm going further :)
23:13	-!-	Bluelads4 [~Bluelads4<(a)>ip-95-222-160-130.unitymediagroup.de] has quit []
23:14	hendrik	omero, i think kiheru is away, he has been quiet over the weekend.
23:15	omero	hehe
23:15	omero	I've been sort of background all the weekend too :)
23:22	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/actions/admin/StoreMessageOnBehalfOfPlayerAction.java: don't need the chatbucket for postman, and use better naming for the source player. make it look like the message if the target didn't exist, came from postman
23:41	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/actions/admin/StoreMessageOnBehalfOfPlayerAction.java: add confirmation message if the character did exist
23:50	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): use new server side storage
23:51	kymara	ok, so now i really do have to do that dumping of the old file so it can be loaded to sql
23:52	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/bot/postman/Postman.java: removed never used code for shouting and doing where queries
23:54	hendrik	we cannot update postman from head anymore until the server is updated to 0.86 and the .xml file is imported to the database.
23:54	hendrik	but the current version will continue to work.
23:56	kymara	once we do update, i'd think we don't have to take him offline to delete the masses of harold spam if it occurs again, right?
23:56	hendrik	yes
23:56	CIA-66	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/bot/postman/ (Postman.java PostmanMain.java): we don't need the background thead anymore that executed /who every minute.
23:56	kymara	ok, we should definitely try do this for 0.86 then i think
23:57	hendrik	I am not sure if the Harold is still an issue.
23:57	hendrik	all people with Harold spam have not logged in since may.
23:57	hendrik	i don't know if harold is still spamming them.
23:58	kymara	maybe they haven't logged in since then because of the spam though :/
23:59	hendrik	But they should have asked about the issue, or contact support.

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