Chat – Stendhal MORPG

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#arianne IRC log

Index of logs

#arianne IRC Log for 2010-08-03

Timestamps are in server time. Show join/quit messages


00:00	-!-	lachgeist [~lachgeist<(a)>dslc-082-083-236-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
00:06	CIA-68	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/content/scripts/character.php: filter images
00:17	-!-	CodeCannon [~Dwidge<(a)>vc-41-15-198-54.umts.vodacom.co.za] has left #arianne []
00:17	hendrik	most of StendhalRPZone.logic() is spent in Creature.logic();
00:18	hendrik	35% are spent in Creture.setIdle(), which are used in GuidedEntity.applyMovement()
00:19	hendrik	the remaining time is spent in Entity.notifyWorldAboutChanges() and HandToHand.findNewTarget();
00:21	hendrik	The worst part of GuidedEntity.applyMovement is getLocalResistance().
00:24	hendrik	211,254 calls to getLocalResistance() create 18,269,888 calls to RPObject.getID().
00:24	hendrik	And RPObject.getID() is realy expensive (?!)
00:25	hendrik	public RPObject.ID getID() {
00:25	hendrik	return new ID(this);
00:25	hendrik	}
00:26	hendrik	public ID(RPObject attr) {
00:26	hendrik	this.id = attr.getInt("id");
00:26	hendrik	if(attr.has("zoneid")) {
00:26	hendrik	this.zoneid = attr.get("zoneid");
00:26	hendrik	}
00:26	hendrik	}
00:31	-!-	Bluelads4 [~Bluelads4<(a)>p5B34AC08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:46	-!-	maechyl [4b4449c8<(a)>gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.68.73.200] has joined #arianne
00:46	maechyl	hello?
00:47	maechyl	is anyone on here?
00:48	maechyl	My character Maechyl was banned for a few days and I wasn't sure why so i made a new character which i thought i was allowed to do and now my ip address is blocked
00:49	maechyl	and it's really sad because I absolutely LOVE this game
00:49	kymara	There should have been a message explaining why when you tried to login.
00:49	maechyl	well, I just saw that I got banne and i freaked out
00:50	maechyl	and now when i log in it just says my ip is blocked
00:50	kymara	If you feel the ban was in error please contact gm-review<(a)>stendhalgame.org with an email explaining your character names and why you think the ban reason is in error.
00:50	maechyl	Is there something I can do?
00:50	maechyl	okay thank you
00:50	kymara	Please be aware it can take a few days to respond.
00:51	maechyl	okay
00:51	maechyl	thanks
00:52	maechyl	I really hope they accept me
00:52	maechyl	I think i might of sworn a few times
00:52	maechyl	but i'll make sure not to do anything bad now
00:52	kymara	No problem. You should be able to attempt to login with your original account and see the message again, to see the reason, if you forgot it.
00:52	kymara	I better not comment any more as the gm-review process will now handle it.
00:56	maechyl	alright thanks
00:56	maechyl	i hope they help
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11:24	-!-	Bluelads4 [~Bluelads4<(a)>p5B34AC71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #arianne
11:49	-!-	yoriy [~yoriy<(a)>62.182.51.174] has joined #arianne
11:54	yoriy	i got 2 equals messages from postman about house owning, both about 1000 moneys for 6 monthes. Is it known bug?
12:03	hendrik	this might be because of a server restart?
12:04	hendrik	2010-08-01 07:52:17 and 2010-08-02 07:56:45 generated.
12:04	hendrik	bbl
12:14	kiheru	almost certainly the server restart. the house tax notifications are rather pessimistic about down times to make sure that everyone gets the messages
12:16	yoriy	maybe we need a kind of checking code on house sellers and Mr. Taxman to control postman messages
12:26	kiheru	now that the postman messages are in the db it would be even possible. originally there was no good way to check it so I preferred sending too many rather than missing some
12:27	kiheru	I suppose Harold could do it as well now. he also sends messages a bit too often
12:42	kiheru	(not that I'd know how feasible it's now, but at least there's some sort of access to the messages)
12:49	kymara	So in the postman data access object you need a method
12:49	kymara	to check if there is alerady a message within that period of time from that source
12:49	kymara	and then a send message command which only stores the message if that check fails
12:50	kymara	if you make a tracker item for this i can do the method and the command
12:50	kymara	well, anyone else can do it too, but the offer is there
12:59	-!-	yoriy [~yoriy<(a)>62.182.51.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:00	kiheru	ok. I'll add an item to the dev tracker
14:27	-!-	storyteller [~storytell<(a)>p57B74799.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #arianne
15:50	CIA-68	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/stats/StatusIconPanel.java: Fixed choking/eating icon interaction. Fixes [3034126] "Eating icon in stats panel remains after full"
16:28	-!-	plassy [~quassel<(a)>ip-90-186-113-114.web.vodafone.de] has joined #arianne
16:42	CIA-68	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/actions/move/PushAction.java: Stop the pushed entity if it's running against the push, and not following a path. Fixes [3038740] "[Stendhal] push should also stop running"
16:52	kymara	so it doesn't affect creatures because creatures are following a path?
16:58	kiheru	should not. I had 2 reasons for it: creatures and making harder to annoy players who are just walking from a place to another
16:58	kymara	yes, the latter was the one i thought of
17:06	-!-	nobun [5238b15d<(a)>gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.56.177.93] has joined #arianne
17:10	nobun	a little suggestion: why not add to the item "present" description (and, if exist - to other silimar item that revail another random item) what could you find in it? For example in "description" or something similar. "Open it and you will find something. An Item randomly choosed from: great potion, summon scroll, ... (other items)"
17:11	kymara	I don't think we should exlpain what you might find
17:11	kymara	not an exact list.
17:11	nobun	why not? (I am curious)
17:12	thorbjorn	This is about presents, right? Since when do you know what you're going to get?
17:13	nobun	you don't know however exactly what you will find exactly xD
17:13	Bluelads4	till you are opening it :P
17:13	Bluelads4	I would agree with kymaras comment. presents are always surprising, like in real life
17:13	nobun	(2 "exactly" lol)
17:13	Bluelads4	so it shouldn't be shown in a description of what you will get or could get
17:14	Bluelads4	it would take the fun of presents
17:14	nobun	uhm
17:14	nobun	I don't agree, but understood... thank for reply :D
17:15	kymara	btw there is an action (not used until we ensure it's not abused) to wrap presents :)
17:15	kymara	so then anything could be inside the present
17:15	storyteller	you mean that players can create presents then?
17:15	kymara	but we'd need to fix things like - can't wrap a present into another present or then you can turn cheese into a scroll :P
17:16	kymara	storyteller yes it was created ages ago but like i said there is stuff to think about
17:16	storyteller	Ah, this is an interesting thing :)
17:16	kymara	and not losing information from items like boundedness
17:16	kymara	or other infostrings
17:16	storyteller	Yes, there might be things to make clear before doing this
17:16	kymara	would need lots of checking adding if we allow players to do it.
17:16	storyteller	yes
17:17	kymara	maybe it could even be a quest reward that you become allowed to do it or you give it to an npc to do, but atm it's that you do it yourself
17:17	kymara	maybe admin can still do it
17:18	kymara	yes, admin can :)
17:18	storyteller	Ah :D I just thought of this little tricky game with the three small containers swapping round and in one of them is the prize :D
17:19	Bluelads4	it's great to make different quiz events with presents as gifts
17:19	storyteller	yes :)
17:19	Bluelads4	it's always funny how happy players are then when opening them
17:19	storyteller	that's true :)
17:20	kymara	it's one of those things that got worked on some time ago and then postponed (hidden except to admin) and may get forgotten about (if it wasnt' for someone chipring it from time to time
17:21	kymara	i'd ask about a feature request to remind us but i think there's already similar stuff on presents or wrapped items
17:22	kiheru	using proper slots would solve wiping attributes and transforming items
17:28	nobun	another thing...
17:28	nobun	I noted that the total keys in game > than keyring slots
17:29	nobun	I think it should be fine if keyring could contain all keys available (+lucky charms so +1)
17:29	kiheru	quite a bit larger, actually, if you count all the house keys
17:29	storyteller	:D
17:29	nobun	no
17:29	storyteller	and spare keys from everyone :D
17:30	nobun	only 1-2 house keys as limit xD
17:30	nobun	for total slots count I meant
17:31	nobun	I am thinking mainly about possible keys (not houses) in games mainly
17:31	nobun	if you count keys in http://stendhalgame.org/item/key.html they are 11
17:32	nobun	so could be fine to have a think like 16 slots free
17:32	nobun	a thing *
17:32	Bluelads4	there are some missing... like the assassin ID
17:33	nobun	yep... better... but the idea is more or less clear... in real life your keyring should contain all keys you have xD
17:33	nobun	if you count keys for houses and spares they would be too much
17:33	Bluelads4	well but normal keyrings are full after some time ^^
17:33	kymara	there are more items in game than space in your bag, too
17:34	storyteller	well, sometimes your key ring may be so big, that you cannot even carry it comfortably in you pocket ;D
17:34	kymara	part of rp is you have to make choices
17:34	kymara	like in real life
17:34	kymara	about what you can carry
17:34	storyteller	thats true, Kymara
17:34	kymara	as Bluelads4 says even real life keyrings have a limit
17:34	kymara	i think the game is more inetresting when you have to make choices
17:34	Bluelads4	agree :)
17:34	nobun	but if you count more or less 2-3 slots more than keys "for game" (to be used to houses and spare) should be fine
17:35	nobun	kymara in real life is not so... have you ever seen a keyring of a lawyer? xD
17:35	nobun	can contain a thing like around 30 keys xD
17:35	Bluelads4	well but I bet this keyring isn't one alone... but more like 6 keyrings at one
17:36	storyteller	yes
17:36	kymara	when the keyring is a real item maybe you can have the option to buy more keyrings
17:36	nobun	but in this game you have only one xD
17:36	storyteller	hmm..
17:36	Bluelads4	yes, that is what I wanted to say as well :D
17:36	kymara	and then the keyring can also get stored in the chest, perhaps.
17:36	storyteller	thats interesting
17:36	Bluelads4	in real you also have to buy new ones
17:37	kymara	nobun: we're working on inspectable and carriable bags, boxes, containers, keyrings, scroll wallets, food pouches, you name it
17:37	nobun	and you can make spare keys for every key, but this shoud not be so fine xD
17:37	kymara	but with those i think we may have to include then a weight limit or not to stack inside each other
17:37	storyteller	yes
17:37	kymara	or a keyring and scroll wallet can be put in a chest or bag but a box or backpack cannot.
17:37	nobun	a limit is necessary also for programming reasons, I understand
17:38	nobun	but however should be find a solution for collecting all keys (more or less) becouse it is a no-sense to require to vaste an entire bank slot for a single key you cannot fit in keyring
17:39	nobun	so why the easiest solution was to have enough space in keyring
17:39	nobun	to don't make things too complex also for you
17:40	kymara	nobun, i don't think it is hard programmatically to add more slots
17:40	kymara	i know it isn't
17:40	nobun	infact
17:40	plassy	wasn't a development meeting or something planned?
17:40	nobun	this why it is the better solution
17:40	kymara	at 7.30pm server time plassy, tonight
17:40	kymara	nobun: sorry but i do not agree
17:40	nobun	"the simplies thing, the better solution"
17:40	plassy	oh... ok
17:40	kymara	not really, and we are working on containers anyway, it's a long term aim.
17:41	nobun	was the sentence for any programmer xD
17:41	kymara	nobun: another option is: don't fix what is not broken
17:41	kymara	it's design that you cannot carry all keys.
17:41	kymara	dont keep them all if you don't want to waste a slot
17:41	kymara	silver key, bronze key, gold key, sedah gate key, all easy to get again if you just throw them away after use.
17:41	nobun	(if you can choose from a complex solution and easiest one, choose the easiest... you would probably do less errors, more efficient code, etc"
17:42	kymara	nobun, thanks, i know that.
17:42	nobun	I know you know
17:42	kymara	but this is not a problem, it's design.
17:42	nobun	I only repeated what other people said (also famous ones)
17:43	nobun	again... why a person should be thorw away a key?
17:43	nobun	in real life if you cannot take in keyring you use your legs xD
17:43	nobun	so, turning the beginning
17:43	nobun	you should think about game functionality
17:44	nobun	not only convinctions
17:44	nobun	* opinions
17:44	nobun	is NOT funtional to use a bank slot for keys you cannot take
17:45	nobun	more or less it is a no-sense
17:46	nobun	in any game of this genre you will say, the character can always carry how many keys he want
17:46	nobun	ou will see *
17:46	storyteller	do you know these tile- inventars from different other games?
17:47	nobun	this is not what I said xD
17:47	storyteller	;)
17:47	nobun	I said that in any rpg a character have not to worry about key carrying
17:47	nobun	xD
17:48	storyteller	well you can carry 12 huge armors here, for example
17:48	nobun	so why my purpose to have enough slots (not too much) to contain all basic keys +2,3 for house and spare +1 for lucky chamrs
17:49	hendrik	without having read any discussion so far: WoW has a keyring.
17:49	hendrik	and without it, key fill slots in your bag.
17:49	hendrik	and the number of slots in the keyring is limit.
17:49	nobun	without it should be simply memorized and not to carry away (like zelda) xD
17:49	hendrik	so basically exactly the same as stendhal, only that it is easier to get the keyring.
17:50	nobun	however I don't understand why you don't want to extend keyring... I don't see a good reason
17:51	nobun	I can understand the reason for bank or bags, for example
17:51	nobun	this is a clear intent, and have a scope
17:51	nobun	but for keyring... I don't see any reasonaly reason, imho
17:52	nobun	so I am unable to see why you don't want to do it... perhaps I am too stuoid...
17:52	nobun	perhaps I am too stupid *
18:04	nobun	I have to mark that I am doing this to contribute... becouse I think that it is a duty of any person who uses a GPL program to contribute how he can... in this situation to mark a thing is to fix in some way... personally in this moment I don't need all those keyring slots (I am using 3 slots in total so...) but I said this to try to "open a question" about a thing that requires to be changed
18:05	nobun	seeing not other replies I feel a duty to mark it... it seems to me you take it as a personal thing, but it is not so
18:07	Bluelads4	we just tried to give you our ideas about it :) nothing personally taken I think :)
18:07	nobun	:)
18:07	nobun	I was afraid by my "basic english" so sometimes I can appear to rude xD
18:08	nobun	too *
18:08	Bluelads4	hehe
18:33	kymara	nobun: I do not see it as a bug that you can't put all possible keys to gain in the game into the keyring.
18:33	kymara	So I do not see it as something to fix
18:34	kymara	but thank you very much for suggesting the idea, in this case however we won't pursue it, I've explained why and I've also explained related future enhancements.
18:36	nobun	eh eh... a "fix" is not necessary related to bug xD however thank for explainations :)
18:36	kymara	Nobun: please feel free to report bugs and suggest feature enhancements as you see them - we have trackers for these on sourceforge
18:36	-!-	martinf [~martin_<(a)>drms-590cf64b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #arianne
18:36	kymara	Do you need links to bookmark or have you already seen them?
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18:36	martinf	good evening
18:36	kymara	There's also many ways you can contribute ideas such as quest ideas and npcs ideas
18:36	kymara	hi martinf
18:37	storyteller	Hi :)
18:37	-!-	CodeCannon [~Dwidge<(a)>vc-41-19-183-188.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #arianne
18:39	nobun	I am thinking about making some maps when I have time... I mentioned my ideas to Bluelad in game... however it is too early to speak about it... In those days I am searching something about how to "pack" the tilesets becouse it is a little tricky to use like it is (but tiled has not so a good documentation unluckly :/)
18:40	kymara	there are some people here experienced with tiled, so please ask when you need help.
18:41	kymara	using the same version of tiled as we do can help as the newer ones are really unmanageable with large numbers of tilesets (like we have for stendhal, deliberately)
18:43	nobun	wait a moment.. responding here... I let my character die so I am trying to reach my own corpse xD
18:43	nobun	the first time I died while playing alone :P
18:43	-!-	yoriy [~yoriy<(a)>62.182.51.174] has joined #arianne
18:49	nobun	ok
18:50	nobun	yes the idea of multi-tiles is right... more order in tiles, and not only. Probably the better choice to do it
18:51	nobun	however seeing you need more than one (and probably I will not be able to remember what I can need in amy situation) I am thinking about some "tileset group" for personal usage
18:52	kymara	uh, just make a template map then
18:52	nobun	for example... to make a .tsx file that contains, "ground.bmp", "bushes" end buildings for a basic outside (like the tiles used in example)
18:52	nobun	uhm
18:52	kymara	which is empty, like use our tempate.tmxfile and load what you want
18:53	kymara	or do what I do and open a map which has very similar tiles
18:53	nobun	perhaps it is the better solution xD
18:53	kymara	then you can always start from that but remember to 'save as'
18:53	kymara	howveer i think it could get boring to reuse the same tiles too often.
18:53	nobun	eh eh
18:53	kymara	and you'll be using our tiles, yes? not adding new images?
18:54	nobun	perhaps I need to use not all the same tiles for my idea
18:54	nobun	no I think not adding images
18:54	kymara	good good
18:54	nobun	I am not an artist
18:54	nobun	so I am unable to paint good tiles
18:55	nobun	however if I would, I more or less have an idea how to make a tile correctly (more or less should be like rpgmaker... make a skele image divided in squares and use single squares for single paint)
18:56	nobun	but... as I said... I am intentioned to use the standard tiles
18:56	nobun	perhaps something new only for clouds
18:57	nobun	but PERHAPS
18:58	nobun	now I am working in an idea, so any cross-suggestion are wellcomed (if you are interested I will explain)
19:00	kymara	we have a meeting starting in half an hour. in general it's a very good idea to write ideas down at least somewhere so you don't have to repeat them over again in private chat
19:00	kymara	dependin gon how full your idea is it might be suitable for somewhere on the wiki
19:01	kymara	i'm not going to be able to respond much in the next half hour as i want to make dinner before our meeting.
19:01	nobun	the idea is strictly related to a map I have to create, so not a idea for game in general
19:02	nobun	this why I am asking here
19:03	nobun	don't worry... it is not needed...
19:03	nobun	have a nice dinner :)
19:03	nobun	anyone (not strictly an admin) can give me the right idea, so I try to ask to friends before
19:06	kymara	i wouldn't be advising as an admin but as a developer
19:06	nobun	lol sorry xD
19:06	kymara	that's okay
19:20	-!-	Laguz [~Miranda<(a)>p57B0A1C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #arianne
19:20	Laguz	hello all
19:29	-!-	omero [~omero<(a)>host91-204-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #arianne
19:30	-!-	mode/#arianne [+o kymara] by ChanServ
19:30	storyteller	Hi Laguz :)
19:30	-!-	kymara changed the topic of #arianne to: Developer's Meeting in progress, please see http://sourceforge.net/projects/arianne/forums/forum/3192/topic/3785798 for details
19:31	kymara	Hi all. Lets start the developer's meeting.
19:31	-!-	mode/#arianne [-o kymara] by kymara
19:32	kymara	I'd like to discuss plans for Stendhal 0.87 and perhaps a bit beyond. At http://sourceforge.net/projects/arianne/forums/forum/3192/topic/3785798 I asked all those who plan to work on 0.87 or are currently working on Stendhal code to attend
19:33	kymara	I'd like us to each share, in turn, a summary of what we are working on currently. Also what you plan to work on, and anything you had been working on but dropped because of difficulties, limitations or other priorities.
19:34	kymara	We can ask questions but it might be an idea to wait until the developer whose 'turn' it is has finished talking, and let them invite questions when they are ready for them (they can choose at which stage to do this).
19:35	kymara	Is everyone okay with this plan?
19:35	storyteller	yes, I am
19:35	plassy	sure
19:35	kiheru	ok
19:35	madmetzger	sounds good
19:35	hendrik	yes
19:36	kymara	Okay. I think there are 8? of us to get through, so lets keep that in mind and try to spend 10 minutes maximum per person. more detailed discussions can be postponed.
19:36	kymara	Hendrik, would you begin, please?
19:36	hendrik	okay
19:37	hendrik	I am currently working on profiling performance issues and need to fix the Harold Twitter code because Twitter will change their API in less than two weeks
19:37	hendrik	the twitter thing is driving me crazy.
19:37	hendrik	in general I am trying to improve the Stendhal website:
19:38	hendrik	It should be possible to create account and character using the website and link them to openidconnect.
19:38	hendrik	kymara is working on postman integration.
19:38	hendrik	I have postponed making the parts of the hall of fame expandable and to show own characters in context
19:38	hendrik	Mostly because the other things are more important.
19:39	hendrik	The website stuff is going rather slowly because my experiance in PHP is limited.
19:39	hendrik	And I have postponed adding a progress bar after character selection on login in the client because the gui stuff is not easy.
19:40	hendrik	Luckily madmetzger adopted the achievement stuff which i dropped.
19:40	hendrik	that's abot it, i think.
19:41	kymara	arilib/sound ?
19:41	hendrik	oups, yes that is dropped, too
19:42	hendrik	it did not get the latest round of bugfixes
19:43	hendrik	and it is hard to understand the code because it does not stick to the style (formating, naming, structuring) of the rest of the project.
19:43	kymara	okay. So, about twitter. That was initially a rather 'easy' win for us, I think?
19:44	kymara	And now it is looking less easy, in fact we might not have even looked into it if the auth was then, as it's going to become
19:44	hendrik	yes
19:44	kymara	So I'm wondering if you really have to fix it, or if we just discontinue that. It's another option, anyway.
19:45	hendrik	it is currently 11 lines of code, using no external library at all. And now it gets really, really complicated.
19:45	hendrik	yes.
19:45	hendrik	it would be easier to use an rss feed instead.
19:45	hendrik	and the twitter documentation is outdated.
19:45	kymara	And the time limit seems a bit pressured. Waiting might mean others have to try it and we can learn from them
19:45	hendrik	i am currently hoping that they will offer a command line tool that we can call.
19:46	hendrik	the profiling / performance optimization is going very well.
19:46	hendrik	so i will focus on that for the next week and then hope that twitter is solved somehow.
19:47	hendrik	I guess my time is up now.
19:47	kymara	Okay, but does anyone have questions?
19:47	kymara	(quick ones :) )
19:47	kymara	If not, who would like to go next? Kiheru?
19:48	kiheru	ok
19:48	kymara	(no special order, I am just picking on people)
19:48	kiheru	I'm currently working on trying to do the item drag and drop in swing (very initial stages)
19:49	yoriy	java.swing, kih?
19:49	kiheru	that was the reason for doing the gamescreen in swing as well. the real objecttive is being able to drag items outside the game screen
19:50	kiheru	for being able to move bag etc outside
19:50	kiheru	no real dropped projects right now (this one used to be, until I picked it up some time ago)
19:51	kymara	containers?
19:51	kymara	or was this the last thing that relied on?
19:52	kiheru	I have postponed real containers until the gui work is done, as I think they'll need less hacks for keeping the bags open at map switches if they're already outside
19:53	kiheru	it may be that i should stop at the dnd-done stage before next release, because any gui work tends to hit a lot of platform dependencies. so it might be a good idea to get wider testing before contiuing
19:54	kymara	okay, so one thing that would really help you is more testing
19:54	kymara	is there anything else that could help you?
19:55	hendrik	I think those containers might need changes to the equipping code.
19:55	kiheru	right now I think I have most things clear for a while
19:56	kiheru	containers will need changes to actions in how contained items are passed to the server
19:57	kiheru	possibly equip code too, I don't remember too well
19:58	kiheru	anyway, I'm busy working on the gui, but occasionally doing quick side projects
19:58	hendrik	It may be a good idea to have a mindmapping session about the requirements and ideas how to improve it. (this is related to bankchests, swapping slot contents, and Harold, too)
19:58	hendrik	now now, of course.
19:58	hendrik	not now, of course.
19:58	kymara	sure. okay, thanks kiheru. Does anyone have any more questions? And who wants to go next?
19:59	kiheru	sounds good
19:59	yoriy	can i continue? :-)
19:59	kymara	please do, yoriy
20:00	yoriy	well, i have several tasks, mostly in quests. The main ones is to improve kills quests, bound creatures-to-kill to their zones
20:01	yoriy	it is 3 quests, CleanStoreSpace, ClubOfThorns, and KillDhohrNuggetcutter
20:02	yoriy	2 more quests, KillDarkElves and KillSpiders, already using proper code but they can be cleaned from support of old-style code
20:02	yoriy	it is other task
20:03	yoriy	i have to write also several parts of ThePiedPiper quest, currently i need image of pied piper npc
20:04	yoriy	minor tasks is to overview KillsRecording code to have separate counting solo and shared kills, and to create command for marking empty scrolls with description
20:05	yoriy	i tryed to complete first one yesterday, but probably i forget something - i didnt found any problems, so i will test it more hardly next days
20:06	kymara	Okay, can we ask questions?
20:07	yoriy	and finally in my plans to create quest for killing blordroughs only, because i want to let players a chance to be part of Deniran war
20:08	yoriy	please kym, guys
20:08	hendrik	yoriy, did you run into problems for which you need help?
20:09	kymara	I'd suggest not to delay working on the pied piper quest because of waiting for an image, because the code shouldn't depend on this.
20:09	kymara	Equally it does not have to be a priority, of course.
20:09	yoriy	i know kym, but without image i cant release this part
20:09	kymara	Hvaing teh code and veerything ready except for a placeholder image can be a good incentive to get someone to draw one.
20:10	kymara	meh sorry
20:10	kymara	Having the code and veerything ready except for a placeholder image can be a good incentive to get someone to draw one.
20:10	yoriy	hend, i need to make good quest string format for killing quests,
20:11	hendrik	yoriy, we can talk about it if you like
20:12	yoriy	for such quests where you need to kill one creature of each kind, i can use creature names in quest string indexes, like "kill_spiders;spider;poisonous spider;giant spider" - in this string player have either creature name if he killed it or empty string if not
20:13	yoriy	but in several quests player have to kill several creatures; so it must be string like "kill_spiders;spider:1;poisonous spider:1;giant spider:1", where numbers show how much creatures player killed
20:14	hendrik	or the number of kills at quest start?
20:14	hendrik	I'd like to think about this a bit.
20:14	madmetzger	could it be maybe similar to the items collection quests? (just an idea)
20:14	hendrik	It may be a good idea idea to continue the meating.
20:14	yoriy	no, in these quests you dont need to know how much creatures you killed before quest
20:15	yoriy	because these creatures bound to zones, and it is zones who count events
20:15	hendrik	yoriy, lets talk about this in detail tomorrow.
20:15	hendrik	okay?
20:15	yoriy	ok.
20:15	kymara	madmetzger: woudl you like to continue now with your plans?
20:15	madmetzger	okay
20:15	madmetzger	atm i am working on achievements
20:16	madmetzger	i started with the ones that have already data tracked we can check for
20:17	madmetzger	this means for killing like achievements and quest achievements the code is there
20:17	madmetzger	also for experience related achievements
20:17	madmetzger	those ones are already working and logged to the database
20:18	madmetzger	my next step is to implement meta achievements that can be reached by reaching other achievements
20:19	madmetzger	still unclear it is how to check for item achievements like "loot a complete black equipment set" as we do not track data for that yet
20:19	madmetzger	my first idea there is to store looted items in a map where we count the number for each item
20:20	hendrik	what about equiping it instead of looting?
20:20	kymara	we'd have to be careful of abuse.
20:20	hendrik	oups, yes.
20:20	kymara	something about first loot from the corpse. otherwise you could just let all your friends and clones pick up your black stuff/pick it up out of a corpse
20:21	madmetzger	another not yet started category of achievements is the zone related one where achievements are awarded for visiting zones
20:21	kymara	perhaps first person to equip it after it was registered.
20:21	madmetzger	yes, that's another issue to consider
20:21	hendrik	zone visits are tracked alrady.
20:21	kymara	they shoudl be easier, madmetzger, as there are already examples for the tutorial
20:21	yoriy	mad, about corpses - probably you can use OnDeath method for that?
20:22	madmetzger	yes, i know that, but i don't like the idea of hard coded lists of zones to visit for an achievement
20:22	kymara	we talked a bit about how to flag them, perhaps in zones.xml
20:23	madmetzger	yes, there are some ideas there, but it means a bit more work so i started with the easy ones
20:23	hendrik	good.
20:23	hendrik	any dropped or postponed projects?
20:23	kymara	so achievement development ideas and issues can still be summarised and discussed in more detail on the wiki page
20:23	hendrik	you can blame postpoing spells on me.
20:23	madmetzger	i postponed spell stuff for the achievements
20:24	kymara	probably a quicker 'win'
20:24	madmetzger	yes
20:24	madmetzger	and achievements could track more people to the website if we have some nice contents there on achievements
20:24	kymara	perhaps once we have a first wave of new achievements we can review
20:25	hendrik	and motivate players
20:25	kymara	and see if there is anything else to work on or go back to before tackling the harder ones
20:25	hendrik	yes.
20:25	madmetzger	but that's a point where i definitely would need help
20:25	hendrik	sure.
20:25	kymara	woudl you like the existed ideas also 'rated'
20:26	madmetzger	sure, items are the complicated ones, so after meta i'll try to tackle the zones
20:26	kymara	because i guess some of them i look at and think 'hmmm.......' and others 'yeah!'
20:26	madmetzger	yes, another point where anyone can help is do fill in the todos on the both achievement pages
20:26	kymara	you can be proactive and get some of the more keen players to look too.
20:27	madmetzger	especially for titles and the difficulty
20:27	madmetzger	yes, maybe some advertising would help there
20:27	kymara	difficulty needs to be explained clearly or some examples given but after that i think they'd have a go.
20:28	kymara	if they don't respond to you asking i can try :D
20:28	madmetzger	one thing i dropped on achievements for the moment is maybe a configuration via xml, but that's not important
20:28	madmetzger	hehe
20:29	madmetzger	difficulty is not easy for me to determine, but it would maybe help to get the opinions of experienced players
20:29	madmetzger	i think that's all so far on achievements
20:29	kiheru	that may have a bit of the same problem as npcs in xml. if it's flexible enough then it starts to be easier to do it in java...
20:30	kymara	and at least some must be done in java
20:30	madmetzger	yes, atm i think i'd drop it completely
20:30	kymara	so having two places to maintain can be confusing
20:30	kymara	okay, thank you madmetzger for that summary, let's move on as we're half way through now.
20:30	kymara	left are: storyteller, me, plassy and laguz, i think.
20:31	plassy	should i?
20:31	kymara	please
20:31	plassy	ok.. im working an a "map editor"
20:31	plassy	but is's actually multi purpose
20:32	plassy	http://imagebin.ca/view/IzrAOQWC.html
20:32	plassy	the idea was basically that we are able to handle the whole#
20:32	plassy	world at one
20:32	plassy	with pathfinding... AI... sound
20:33	plassy	and so on...
20:33	plassy	i am at the point, that i can import a zone file
20:33	plassy	and convert it to the shown map format
20:34	plassy	i am now doing the stuff for editing the map (setting boundaries)
20:34	plassy	i want to use NURBS for this
20:34	plassy	http://imagebin.ca/view/ZZtcH-cC.html
20:35	plassy	i've implemented basic editing capabilities
20:35	plassy	a yes... what the editor has to is a shell
20:37	plassy	in order to keep grapical code and logic code seperates, i implemented a unix like shell, so that the functionality is seperatet in subprocesses that can be executed in the shell
20:37	plassy	and the GUI is an backend to the shell
20:37	plassy	so it has not match logical code in it
20:38	hendrik	frontend?
20:38	plassy	yes frontend
20:38	plassy	sorry
20:38	kiheru	hmm. global pathfinding is certainly neat, but I'm curios about short term goals
20:38	kymara	It looks very interesting and impressive. For me it is hard to comprehend and comment on it without seeing code, building it myself and trying it.
20:39	yoriy	useful for PizzaDelivery quest :-)
20:39	hendrik	i am afraid it is a miguel style project.
20:39	plassy	you can't do much yet anyway... the most functionality has no graphical or shell frontend
20:39	kiheru	marauroa is very much zone based, so there are a lot of problems on the way
20:40	plassy	thats it
20:41	plassy	i know that marauroa is zone based, but this can be changed... because everythinh can be changed
20:41	kymara	I'm not sure how you know what is needed from a map editor without asking
20:41	kymara	I mean, from a Stendhal map editor.
20:41	kymara	There's a lot of feature requests for things 'configurable with tiled'
20:42	-!-	nobun [5238b15d<(a)>gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.56.177.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:42	kymara	and I'm sure the developers could think of a longer list
20:42	plassy	i know the map format, i know the zone files...
20:42	plassy	and first it is multipurpose
20:42	kymara	You asked storyteller to come up with the sound wish list for example - I was just wondering about the rest
20:42	kymara	okay.
20:43	plassy	what would be the restr?
20:43	plassy	*rest?
20:43	kymara	Other wish lists
20:43	plassy	i cannot do anything at once. i've set me goals
20:44	plassy	first map -> map editing -> pathfinding -> sound editing
20:44	kymara	do you plan to release the code?
20:44	kiheru	it worries that this seems somewhat wrong order to solve the problems to me. there are a lot of zone continuity issues that could be solved first without the need to handle the whole world at once
20:44	plassy	i do other stuff if this works
20:45	hendrik	Shall we continue?
20:45	plassy	what issues are these?
20:46	plassy	i don't really see a problem with a continuos world
20:46	kymara	perhaps we can come back to this at another time, because the details may be out of the scope of this meeting.
20:46	kiheru	switching maps smoothly, for instance
20:46	kiheru	ok
20:46	kymara	thanks for the update plassy.
20:46	hendrik	it may be a good idea to look at the old meeting logs where this was discussed in great detail.
20:47	kymara	storyteller and Laguz, we're interested to hear from you both.
20:47	Laguz	ok
20:47	storyteller	Okay, shall I continue?
20:47	*	hendrik giggles: one of the other, please.
20:47	kiheru	(I certainly don't oppose having a continuous world. It just looks to me that you're trying to do too much at once)
20:47	Laguz	story continue
20:47	storyteller	Okay :)
20:48	storyteller	So, well... I was mainly involved in the sounds and music in the last time
20:49	storyteller	I created some background music tracks for different places and added them to some zones
20:50	storyteller	I also added different sounds to the maps
20:51	storyteller	also recorded some own sounds which could be used in future
20:51	storyteller	for example with turning a book page
20:52	storyteller	But with adding the sounds and music to the world I encountered some problems
20:52	storyteller	A music file can only be added to a zone one time
20:53	storyteller	so if there are areas where this music shouldn't be, but the rest of the zone should have this music, there is a problem
20:53	storyteller	I thought of some different things which could be done to the sound system to make it better a little bit
20:54	hendrik	is the book page sound committed?
20:55	storyteller	yes
20:55	storyteller	there are two different, but similar sounds: book-1.ogg and book-2.ogg
20:55	kymara	Could the ideas be added to feature requests (one per idea) ?
20:55	storyteller	the ideas for the sound system?
20:55	kymara	Yes
20:56	storyteller	well, I told Plassy
20:56	plassy	yes he told me
20:56	kymara	Please make feature requests for them also as perhaps they can already be done on the existing system without you having to wait for the map editor work to finish?
20:56	storyteller	but I could also add them to the tracker
20:56	storyteller	okay
20:56	plassy	i would hardly doubt this
20:57	kymara	We've seen no code for the map editor so it may never happen.
20:57	storyteller	well, another thing: What about a "Sound and music ideas"- page on the wiki sound page?
20:57	plassy	ok, i understand
20:57	storyteller	people could add their ideas there what could be added
20:58	kymara	Depends, if we think they can be crossed off one by one as they are implemented then I prefer tracker.
20:58	kymara	But we could add a sound/music category if there is not already one.
20:58	kymara	What do others think?
20:58	storyteller	as I like to know where to add music, what kind of music, what sounds could be nice (I've read somewhere about bee- sounds near Aldrin, for example)
20:58	hendrik	I was about to type: storyteller, okay if those are complex things that are composed of several small steps (for which tracker items should be made)
20:59	hendrik	a "how to add sounds" would be nice.
20:59	madmetzger	not sure, i think the idea is not bad, because you can try to suggest a structure there which information is helpful and so on
20:59	Laguz	i like wiki for better clarity
21:00	yoriy	i prefer tracker
21:00	hendrik	it depends on the goal.
21:00	hendrik	"please add book sounds to books" would be good for the tracker.
21:00	storyteller	Hmm...
21:01	madmetzger	adding first ideas for a sound might be better placed on the wiki, like "sound: waterfall possible locations: zone, coords"
21:01	hendrik	But collecting ideas about how to make ados market a living experiance with a lots of sounds that make sense, would be better on wiki.
21:01	storyteller	yes
21:01	storyteller	Well, I thought of jsut collecting ideas first...#
21:01	hendrik	tracker is very good for items that can be ticked off. Wiki is good for collecting ideas.
21:01	kymara	you can also refer to specific tracker items from the wiki. so if you collect ideas and one gets moved to the tracker you can link to it.
21:02	kymara	storyteller: if you need help with creating the page, a name for it, or anything else, please ask us, when you come to it
21:02	storyteller	Okay
21:02	kymara	and as hendrik notes, as well as a sounds and music ideas page, it would be nice to have a 'how to' guide
21:03	kymara	if you would have time to do that it would be great too
21:03	storyteller	Okay
21:03	kymara	Is it okay to move to Laguz now?
21:03	storyteller	Yes, that's okay :)
21:04	Laguz	ok then, its not much
21:04	Laguz	i still need reject message for gates
21:04	Laguz	for teh quests
21:04	Laguz	and then this point
21:04	Laguz	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3023271&group_id=1111&atid=351111
21:05	Laguz	i still dont know whats the best way to do this
21:05	Laguz	i want some suggestions
21:05	Laguz	im not the coder so^^
21:05	storyteller	Just make him a "friendly enemy" ;) He is an enemy but doesnt attack you
21:06	Laguz	this for the quests
21:06	yoriy	easy for me! lol
21:06	storyteller	just after telling the keyword
21:06	Laguz	maybe you have better ideas
21:06	storyteller	but I don't know either... ;)
21:06	Laguz	ok and the other thing is still the min-levels-list for items
21:07	Laguz	if we want to add it, we should take a look together
21:07	Laguz	i just made suggestions
21:07	kymara	http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Stendhal_Item_Ideas
21:07	Laguz	ok thats all from me
21:08	kymara	Laguz: I have been reviewing the min levels and they look okay to me, but shall I review again and let you know which groups to add?
21:08	kiheru	the min levels is something normal players can contribute with, just in case someone is reading
21:08	kymara	(hint for people looking at those tables: you can sort them, for armor click the little arrow box on the def column, for attack weapons click it on the effectiveness)
21:08	Laguz	kymara, yes
21:09	storyteller	Ah, nice :)
21:09	kymara	I did not understand the ones with slash in
21:10	Laguz	ah yes
21:10	kymara	If you have another type of suggestion (e..g use def level instead xp level) i'd like an extra column
21:10	kymara	so we can still sort the min level column independently and so it's less confusing
21:11	Laguz	for example teh plate armor and iron cuirass
21:11	Laguz	i prefer to change the def
21:12	Laguz	and quest items are especialy too
21:13	Laguz	club of thorns is a very stron item
21:13	kymara	For the reject message on gates, could you make a tracker request? I guess you have mentioned it before but it must have been forgotten
21:13	Laguz	the min level should very high, but its still a quest item
21:13	kymara	a request means it is less likely to get forgotten again
21:13	Laguz	im not sure, ill check this
21:13	Bluelads4	I think having minimum levels for quest items is some kind of a bad punishment for the guy who made the quest
21:13	Laguz	if not ill make q request
21:14	kymara	maybe the quest should be made harder :)
21:14	Laguz	bluelads4 thats the problem
21:14	kiheru	club of thorns also hurts the user; that's why you don't see it used much despite the excellent atk
21:14	yoriy	twin swords already have min level
21:15	Laguz	fact is, these quest items destroy the system a bit
21:15	Bluelads4	but that is a harder quest in my eyes (the twin sword one)
21:15	yoriy	obsidian knife too
21:15	Bluelads4	you can get the club of thorns with some potions also when you are having a smaller level
21:15	hendrik	we can put min level on quests.
21:15	kymara	and perhaps some quests should be made harder if they seem not to match the reward
21:15	Bluelads4	that could take the tension for some players of trying to fight a bit more for gaining something at a quest
21:16	Bluelads4	(in relation to hendriks idea)
21:16	kymara	i'm happy if they're made more interesting, anyway
21:17	kymara	getting something you can't use too well yet is also a bit of an incentive to level up, so long as you are not way too far off it
21:17	storyteller	There just came a new idea to my mind:
21:17	Laguz	making the quest harder sounds like the best way
21:18	storyteller	Triggered actions and sudden things whithin a quest
21:18	kymara	e.g the obsidian knife suggestion was 60, and the min level for the quest is 50, and that seems okay to me.
21:18	Laguz	it makes no sense to be able to do the quest with lvl 30 and the item needs lvl 120
21:18	kymara	yes Laguz. would you be able to put some thought into it?
21:19	Laguz	the quests?
21:19	kymara	yes, specifically the club of thorns one.
21:19	Laguz	yes
21:19	kymara	I did want to ask you more generally about quests.
21:19	kymara	If you could help think of quests ideas for dungeons
21:19	Laguz	sure
21:19	kymara	To help lure new players into the dungeons, perhaps one per level
21:20	kymara	It seemed to be to be good timing to do something else for a while, as madmetzger has postponed work on spells
21:20	kymara	and so your related work on magic may be better to way a little incase it can utilise, and help shape, the spell system.
21:20	kiheru	I think the club of thorns is not a huge problem. it has high atk, but since players rarely use it it's not something we need to restrict much
21:20	kymara	So you may need to postpone more work on the wizards' towers
21:22	Laguz	just tell me what u need
21:22	Bluelads4	I would agree with kiheru
21:22	Laguz	ill stop making the wizards quest meanwhile
21:22	Bluelads4	and it takes HP already when you are using it
21:22	kymara	Okay, thank you Laguz.
21:23	kymara	I guess this leaves me
21:23	kymara	I've been working on integrating postman with the website now that he stores messages in a database.
21:24	kymara	There's already something out but there's more to do like being able to leave a postman message for another player.
21:25	kymara	yoriy did a lot of work porting the quest history system from the old one using xml, it's now all in java, which is very nice
21:25	yoriy	not all kym
21:25	kymara	There are a lot of quests which didn't ever have a history filled in because the old system was very hard to understand
21:25	yoriy	hints left
21:25	kymara	I want to help with filling in the histories, or at least coordinating how non technical contributors can help fill them in
21:25	kymara	yoriy: yes
21:26	yoriy	it can be an example of my dropped work :-)
21:26	kymara	As well as filling in the histories I'd like to spend some time reviewing the other methods around quest information (including hints)
21:26	*	hendrik giggles.
21:26	kymara	So that there is something quite robust and gui-ready.
21:27	kymara	I might do: smart bank areas with portals that can tell if one player is inside the little zone (or two players, for the table)
21:28	kymara	I'm not doing: pets refactoring as I have no idea where to start, but it would be nice to ...
21:28	yoriy	are we still loosing pets on server restarts?
21:28	kiheru	yes
21:29	kymara	yes but that would be easy
21:29	kymara	that's not what i meant. I meant allowing them to level up for example, which keeps beign requested.
21:29	kymara	I tried to add some new functionality to equipment - swapping items in slots, a right click equip method. But it is all very messy, and really needs a complete review before any new stuff gets added.
21:29	yoriy	ah..
21:30	kymara	I have a feeling kiheru would be good on the pets.
21:30	kiheru	equip code is very complicated
21:30	kymara	But he is really busy with gui, still, maybe I could use him as a consultant.
21:30	hendrik	we should collect requirements for it before trying to refactor it.
21:30	kymara	for equipment?
21:31	hendrik	yes.
21:31	kymara	okay
21:31	hendrik	there are hidden things like Harold should not destroy items he stores a second later and hands out.
21:31	hendrik	bank chest copying.
21:31	hendrik	copying from slot to chest, not abusable item duplication
21:32	hendrik	address slots in items that are in slots in items.
21:32	hendrik	addressing empty slots spaces.
21:32	hendrik	and i guess there is more.
21:32	kiheru	I actually thought about a method for non copying bank chests recently whan tracking a buglet with the swing gamescreen
21:33	hendrik	i think we need some kind of "redirecting" actings.
21:33	hendrik	not sure if that should be done client or server side or how at all.
21:34	yoriy	im sorry guys i have to disconnect - after a hot period of time finally i have a storm here, with lightnings. Im afraid this can destroy my router
21:34	yoriy	will read logs tomorrow
21:34	hendrik	okay.
21:34	yoriy	bye now, hugs all :-)
21:34	kiheru	bye yoriy. it was nice you could attend
21:34	hendrik	I hope the rain will help with the smoke and remaining fires.
21:34	storyteller	Oh... Bye yoriy
21:34	madmetzger	see you yoriy
21:34	kymara	Thanks yoriy
21:34	Laguz	gn8 yoriy
21:34	yoriy	thanx hend
21:34	storyteller	Good luck and stay safe :)
21:35	-!-	yoriy [~yoriy<(a)>62.182.51.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:35	kymara	hendrik, kiheru, do you want to talk about the bank chests now?
21:36	hendrik	no, i need time to think about all that.
21:36	kymara	Otherwise, I would lke to finish with a summary of unused but potentially nice or useful code in the project.
21:36	hendrik	well, i like to hear kiheru idea.
21:36	hendrik	okay
21:36	kymara	By no an means exhaustive summary.
21:36	kymara	By no means an exhaustive summary.
21:36	hendrik	Bluelads4, do you have any plans?
21:36	hendrik	(Otherwise i have a task i would like to ask you)
21:37	Bluelads4	ehm no, no plans at the moment... I've heard of someone who wants to install eclipse on my laptop ^^
21:37	storyteller	;D
21:37	Bluelads4	but that is all at the moment
21:37	hendrik	Bluelads4, i like to have a slide show of stendhal images on the website.
21:37	kiheru	I thought about redirecting PersonalChestSlot to the player bank slot in question (the iterator etc). ie make it a wrapper rather than a real slot
21:38	hendrik	it is low priority.
21:38	hendrik	Bluelads4, but it needs information on which images to display.
21:38	hendrik	my idea was to use images uploaded to the wiki.
21:39	Bluelads4	okay like the screenshots given there for dungeons and areas?
21:39	hendrik	Bluelads4, anything that looks nice.
21:39	hendrik	if you want to help, could you add a line like this to the image information page: [[Category:Stendhal Slideshow\|some description of the image]]
21:40	hendrik	I can then write some code to read those from the database and display a random one with the subtitle.
21:40	Bluelads4	sure, I can do that
21:41	hendrik	thank you.
21:41	hendrik	kymara, sorry for interrupting you.
21:41	kymara	thats okay, and kiheru replied too but I think those are codey details and we shoudl wrap up the meeting soon
21:42	kymara	So, just a little list of unused things which I thought worth mentioning
21:42	kymara	- Herald NPC (Patrick) is working nicely but the image is not good enough quality
21:43	kymara	- madmetzger's clever text filter, a very early thing he contributed. No, I don't think we should try to filter spoken text but I think it could be worth applying to character names, pet names and sentences for example.
21:44	kymara	- the ados ship maps which we used for 'finding susi' and then closed. they need pirates and a quest.
21:45	kymara	- durkham's food mill, I'm not sure about using it to make apple juice (unless players are keen on that idea) but it's certainly an idea we should generalise and try to use it for combining / processing other items manually.
21:45	storyteller	(there is already a pirate's hook image hidden on the patches tracker, by the way ;) )
21:46	kymara	- gates got their first use now in the spire of the wizard's tower, but i think they could be used elsewhere too to good effect
21:46	kymara	- presents (got mentioned earlier today, that a wrap action was written and then not used for players because of too many other things to check)
21:47	kymara	thanks storyteller. and we had some pirates for teh raid but these did not use custom images, rather mainly they were 'lutin' images which were an old creature set for wooland folk made by tari.
21:47	storyteller	Ah :)
21:48	storyteller	Yes, I think I can remember them on that raid :)
21:48	kymara	another unused creature set are the truskulls made by freakuser.
21:48	kymara	okay, so that is all, if people want to comment.
21:48	kymara	oh one more:
21:49	kymara	- arianne website improvements to make it as good as the stendhal website (less of a unused code, more of a postponed project)
21:49	kymara	just mentioning that incase any php fans are out there
21:51	kymara	Okay, thanks all for coming
21:52	kiheru	there used to be several uses for the food mill type item, but I don't know if they ever got listed in one place
21:52	hendrik	thanks for listing them.
21:52	storyteller	You're welcome :)
21:53	kymara	Lets close the meeting now and let codey chat commence again
21:53	*	hendrik giggles.
21:54	hendrik	i am having trouble to walk from semos city to village sometimes on a local server.
21:54	hendrik	other times it works without problems, no error message, no restart.
21:54	-!-	mode/#arianne [+o kymara] by ChanServ
21:55	-!-	kymara changed the topic of #arianne to: [ Stendhal 0.86.1 and Marauroa 3.8.1 released: downloads and FAQ at the server homepage http://stendhalgame.org ][ want to chat?: /join #arianne-chat ][ ANY QUESTIONS? Just ask and stick around in the channel, maybe an answer will pop up later ][ This channel is logged: http://stendhalgame.org/development/chat.html ]
21:55	hendrik	aaaah, sorry.
21:55	hendrik	wasn't there a message telling you about your poor little sheep?
21:56	kymara	there is a message if you lose him when you changed zones
21:56	-!-	mode/#arianne [-o kymara] by kymara
21:56	kymara	i think there is a message if you try to use or walk through a portal and it is too far
21:56	kymara	but i do not think there is one for changing one.
21:56	kymara	zone
21:57	kymara	sheep make tasty meat
21:57	hendrik	okay
21:57	*	kymara giggles
22:00	Bluelads4	hendrik is there a limit of pictures you want to have for the slide show?
22:00	*	Bluelads4 already started ^^
22:00	hendrik	Bluelads4, no. but if there are similar picture, pick the nicest one.
22:00	Bluelads4	oki :)
22:01	kymara	make sure i don't look fat in any
22:03	Bluelads4	:D I'm trying to filter these pics of myself as well :P
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22:11	storyteller	Kymara, is it okay when I just add ideas to the feature request tracker, if a have some? Also if they will not get implemented soon or if they are just some (maybe strange or too big) ideas to add within the next releases?
22:12	hendrik	please add them.
22:12	storyteller	Well, I also talk about this "Tower Defense" idea I had
22:12	hendrik	ideas are volite if not written down.
22:12	storyteller	I know if is a very big project if this would be done
22:13	storyteller	but I have some ideas for it and well... just want to collect them for the case that this may be done one day
22:13	kymara	that's really fine
22:14	kymara	the tracker is useful as we can monitor recent additions so easily
22:14	storyteller	Okay :)
22:14	kymara	and comment whenever there is time
22:14	kymara	but you need not tell about each new idea added, because we'll surely see them
22:15	kymara	if you add an urgent bug report, tell us then in person though, please :)
22:15	kymara	I started http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Stendhal_Developers_Meeting_2010-08-03
22:15	kymara	is it worth to summarise what each person said, or shall we leave it as a raw log
22:16	storyteller	Okay, Kymara :) Thank you :) So I'll just add them and will not mention them here or so, okay? ;)
22:16	kymara	sure, though mentioning here is also fine. i just need to remember that doesn't mean you expect us to jump right to them
22:17	kymara	because i am sure that is not what you mean when you mention them, i'm just paranoid
22:17	hendrik	kymara, i don't think we need to write a sumary, and it would be really difficult.
22:18	storyteller	Kymara: Okay :)
22:20	kymara	okay, we'll leave that as is then.
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22:32	Bluelads4	hendrik: I think I'm done with the wiki screenshots...
22:33	hendrik	oh that was fast.
22:33	hendrik	thank you.
22:35	Bluelads4	you're welcome :)
22:36	hendrik	http://pastebin.com/K306jv6k
22:37	Bluelads4	was it right by the way to change the "some description of the image" with a new description?
22:37	hendrik	yes.
22:37	Bluelads4	ok :)
22:37	hendrik	that was the idea.
22:37	Bluelads4	phew :D
22:37	hendrik	have a look at the pastbin.
22:37	Bluelads4	yes I did :)
22:38	hendrik	that's what i get from the database, it looks good.
22:38	hendrik	there is a little problem: The images names are prefixed and i need a way to calculate that.
22:39	hendrik	http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/images/a/a6/Ados_ship.png
22:39	hendrik	I guess a6 is a hash of the image name (a hash is something similar to a Quersumme but for text).
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22:45	kymara	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:MediaWiki_file_usage
22:45	kymara	Filenames are MD5-hashed, and since many filesystems don't handle large directories well, uploads are broken into subdirectories with the first and first two hex digits of the hash,
22:47	hendrik	ah, good. we already have code for doing md5 somewhere on the website.
22:47	hendrik	because it is used for password encryption, so the login code must handle it.
22:48	kymara	and the channge password stuff
22:49	kymara	it's just a function called md5(string)
22:49	hendrik	good, thank you.
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22:59	kymara	http://imagebin.ca/view/DjdRQd5.html
22:59	kymara	working on making the characters page look nicer
22:59	kymara	i mean https://stendhalgame.org/account/mycharacters.html
23:00	kymara	but these guys are overlapping each other atm
23:00	kymara	i guess i have to explicitly set the height of each little player box as well as that whole box.
23:00	hendrik	the "details" link is extra on that page.
23:00	hendrik	so it is heigher than on the online player page.
23:00	kymara	okay
23:01	kymara	but they both use teh same css definition
23:01	kymara	well, i assume the one in online.php is looking to online.css still but it may not always
23:01	kymara	i put the one for mycharacters (same name) in a global file
23:01	kymara	maybe i give it a new name
23:01	kymara	is that better?
23:01	hendrik	perhas it is possible to increase it just a bit so that mycharacter does not overlap but online players does not have too much space.
23:02	kymara	okay
23:02	hendrik	if that does not work, you can use a different class.
23:02	hendrik	using mostly the same definitions, just a little extra section for the height.
23:02	kymara	now as well as merging lots of accounts i need to get a lot of players online :D
23:02	hendrik	update character_stats set online=1
23:03	kymara	cheat!
23:03	hendrik	okay, okay, that is cheating.
23:03	*	hendrik looks down and whispers: sorry.
23:03	Bluelads4	into the corner with you! :D
23:03	kymara	whenever i do that kind of thing I have to be really careful to do it on the correct db
23:03	*	hendrik whispers: but, but.
23:03	hendrik	i just wanted to be helpful pout
23:04	Bluelads4	^hehe
23:04	*	Bluelads4 gives hendrik an icecream
23:04	Bluelads4	don't pout and come out of the corner again :D
23:04	hendrik	thank you.
23:04	kymara	you just be careful i don't put 19095 players online
23:05	hendrik	well, i guess that would be a good performance test for the website...
23:06	Bluelads4	:D
23:06	kymara	they wouldn't fit
23:06	kymara	that height is hardcoded to 700px
23:06	*	Bluelads4 starts to create a few...
23:06	kymara	remember for the summer party we overfilled the box
23:06	kymara	http://imagebin.ca/view/n9ilLJ2C.html
23:07	kymara	thats online with the height increased
23:07	kymara	i would prefer a different setting for the url too of the characters as i find it confusing that you can click on Details but not the rest of the name, age, etc
23:07	kymara	(unless I make all those be links)
23:08	hendrik	i guess it should be blue.
23:08	kymara	okay. for the purposes of online it was black
23:09	kymara	for the name
23:09	hendrik	the details link.
23:09	kymara	yes
23:10	kymara	eek i don't know how to do that in css
23:10	kymara	if the rest is onlinePlayer still
23:10	kymara	and i add a new .character a { text-decoration: none; }
23:11	kymara	then the a href thingy was part of a <div class="onlinePlayer">
23:11	kymara	so do i tell the span, or the a itself, to be class character ?
23:11	hendrik	you can add a class to the <a ...>details tag.
23:12	kymara	<a class="character" href="'.rewrit ... didn't work
23:12	hendrik	<a class="characterdetails" href....>details</a>
23:12	hendrik	and in the css file below .character a {...
23:13	hendrik	a.characterdetails {...}
23:13	kymara	sory i have not followed
23:13	kymara	- you think i shoudl call it characterdetails not character
23:14	kymara	but you mention to use .character a {..
23:14	kymara	- why did it become a.characterdetails{...}
23:14	kymara	instead of .characterdetails a {...}
23:14	kymara	?
23:14	hendrik	perhaps i missunderstood.
23:14	kymara	the overall class before was onlinePlayer.
23:14	hendrik	i thought .character a was doing the normal black text.
23:15	hendrik	i thought ".character a" was doing the normal black text.
23:15	kymara	no, .onlinePlayer a was
23:15	kymara	so i added a new .character a { text-decoration: none; }
23:15	-!-	__emily__ [57b72c54<(a)>gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.183.44.84] has joined #arianne
23:15	kymara	and then i did <a class="character" href="'.rewrit
23:15	__emily__	guten abend
23:15	hendrik	ahh.
23:15	hendrik	so that would be just ".character"
23:15	kymara	yes
23:15	__emily__	sry wenn ich das jetzt auf deutsch schreib, nagekt mich fest oder seit mir bös
23:15	kymara	ok, no a
23:15	hendrik	not ".character a"
23:16	hendrik	__emily__, nö, das ist okay.
23:16	kymara	hi __emily__
23:16	__emily__	ich hatte eben auf der linken seite ne weile nichts zu sehen also weder die karte noch meinen def atk und so noch die freundesliste
23:16	__emily__	ich kann im mom nicht umständlich denken :(
23:17	hendrik	war das weiß / grau oder war der ganze bereich weg?
23:17	__emily__	der bereich in farbe
23:17	__emily__	also der grundfarbe aber nichts zu sehen
23:17	__emily__	auch das wo man schreibt war weiss
23:17	hendrik	Welches Windows Version hast du?
23:18	__emily__	also mein char war da was ich geschrieben hab hab ich nach dem enter klicken auch sehen können
23:18	__emily__	o0
23:18	__emily__	ähm
23:18	Bluelads4	hört sich nach windows 7 an ^^
23:18	__emily__	also
23:18	__emily__	ich habe xp
23:18	__emily__	das iss es was ihr meint oder? *dumm frag
23:18	Bluelads4	ja
23:19	__emily__	püh
23:19	hendrik	ich glaube nach einem neustart von stendhal ist der bereich wieder da.
23:19	hendrik	Bluelads4 hat einen Bugreport gemacht.
23:20	hendrik	kiheru, __emily__ is getting the white screen for the minimap/buddy area, too. on windows xp, Java 1.6
23:20	__emily__	der kam hendrik
23:20	__emily__	also wenn du bei mir rein schaust in den acc
23:20	__emily__	ich habe mit niss gespielt
23:20	Bluelads4	mittendrin?
23:20	__emily__	dann hab ich geschrieben und auch das ich blind laufe
23:20	Bluelads4	oder direkt nach dem einloggen
23:21	__emily__	direkt nach dem einloggen blind
23:21	__emily__	dann später kams
23:21	hendrik	oh
23:21	__emily__	o0 was ich hier schreibe
23:21	__emily__	sry
23:22	hendrik	__emily__, benutzt du den "Play Now" button auf der Website oder die Download-Version?
23:22	__emily__	download version
23:22	__emily__	danke hendrik
23:22	Bluelads4	emily schau mal hier http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3027756&group_id=1111&atid=101111
23:22	hendrik	in dem Stendhal-Verzeichnis, gibt es ein Unterverzeichnis, "log".
23:23	hendrik	und da gibt es eine stendhal.txt.
23:23	Bluelads4	da steht unten: attached file
23:23	Bluelads4	und dann download
23:23	kiheru	chatlog too?
23:23	Bluelads4	mach das mal und gucke, ob das bei dir auch so aussah
23:23	__emily__	yes chat too
23:23	hendrik	kiheru, and on Bluelads4's screenshot, too.
23:24	__emily__	nein blue meine fenster waren bunt
23:24	hendrik	__emily__, kannst du mal nach der Datei schauen?
23:24	__emily__	also nicht weiss
23:24	__emily__	sprich der hintergrund war farbig
23:24	__emily__	nur das chatfenster war uni weiss
23:24	Bluelads4	ok also links quasi nur die schrift weg aber der hintergrund war da
23:25	__emily__	japp
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23:29	__emily__	hendrik da finde ich cache und jar
23:30	Bluelads4	das ist der falsche ordner :)
23:30	kiheru	I have no good idea what's wrong :-( nothing related has changed for a good while. (unless it's some swing/windows drivers issue)
23:30	__emily__	und ein unterverzeichnis log
23:30	hendrik	__emily__, gibt es da eine stendhal.txt?
23:31	__emily__	nein ich glaube nicht
23:31	Bluelads4	oder du gehst auf start, suchen und gibst stendhal.txt ein
23:31	hendrik	ansonsten kann es noch wo anders ein stendhal-Verzeichnis geben.
23:31	hendrik	Bluelads4, kannst Du dich darum kümmern, ich moechte schlafen gehen?
23:32	Bluelads4	das kann ich machen :)
23:32	hendrik	good night.
23:32	__emily__	sry hendrik
23:32	__emily__	schlaf gut
23:32	storyteller	C- Dokumente und EInstellungen - "Benutzername"
23:32	Bluelads4	gute nacht hendrik :)
23:32	hendrik	keine sorge.
23:32	Bluelads4	storyteller: das ist der falsche ordner ;)
23:32	storyteller	darin ist auuch ein stendhal - ordner
23:32	storyteller	ah okay ;)
23:32	Bluelads4	:)
23:33	Bluelads4	__emily__: wenn du unten in der windowsleiste auf start gehst und dann auf Suchen, kannst du einen dateinamen eingeben
23:33	storyteller	ist zumindest der mit dem cache ;)
23:33	Bluelads4	unter "gesamter oder teil des dateinamens"
23:33	Bluelads4	da gibst du dann "stendhal.txt" ein
23:33	Bluelads4	und klickst auf suchen
23:34	Bluelads4	dann müsste dir rechts die datei irgendwann angezeigt werden
23:34	__emily__	in daeien und ordnern?
23:34	Bluelads4	genau
23:35	__emily__	wenn jenny hier wäre wars easy
23:35	__emily__	ich in dafür zu doof
23:35	Bluelads4	:) jetzt hast du ja mich per ferndiagnose :D
23:35	__emily__	danke dir *knutscha
23:35	Bluelads4	:)
23:36	Bluelads4	kiheru: I tested the new client thingy on the xplanner some seconds ago, it's working without getting a total white screen with windows 7
23:37	Bluelads4	(I wanted to test it earlier but forgot it :D)
23:38	Bluelads4	__emily__: wurde die datei schon gefunden?
23:38	__emily__	nein
23:38	Bluelads4	aber das wird noch gesucht?
23:39	Bluelads4	(rechts müsste dann stehen: dateien werden durchsucht oder sowas)
23:41	__emily__	jupp der sucht noch
23:42	Bluelads4	oki
23:43	Bluelads4	wie genau öffnest du das spiel denn? vom desktop aus?
23:44	__emily__	jupp
23:44	Bluelads4	und da in einem ordner drinne?
23:44	__emily__	doppel klick auf das bildchen
23:44	kiheru	Bluelads4: thanks. I hope it wasn't just luck
23:44	__emily__	hab das aber mal entpackt jetzt
23:45	Bluelads4	ahh hast du da einen ordner jetzt sichtbar der log heißt?
23:45	__emily__	dann hab ich unterordner
23:45	__emily__	client
23:45	__emily__	common
23:45	__emily__	und
23:45	__emily__	tools
23:45	kiheru	(the test client atm should be fully compatible with the current server, so playing with it works if you're adventurous)
23:46	Bluelads4	hehe :) I'll walk around a bit during the next days to test if it was just luck or if it relaly works :)
23:47	Bluelads4	hmm also ich hab diese sachen sichtbar nirgends im moment __emily__ :D
23:48	__emily__	waaaaaaah wehe ich mach jennys lappi hier ducheinander dann will die gewiss nimmer heim
23:48	Bluelads4	hehe
23:48	Bluelads4	kannst du vielleicht einen screenshot von dem desktop machen und mir übers icq schicken?
23:48	Bluelads4	vielleicht kann ich dich so lotsen
23:48	Bluelads4	ich hab selber kein windows xp mehr, deshalb weiß ich nicht mehr genau, wie da was aussah
23:49	__emily__	ähm
23:49	__emily__	ja
23:49	__emily__	wie mach ich sowas?
23:49	Bluelads4	hehe du musst auf steuerung drücken und dann gib es eine taste die heißt "druck"
23:49	Bluelads4	in der reihe mit den F-tasten
23:49	Bluelads4	das beides drücken, dann paint öffnen
23:50	Bluelads4	und steuerung und V drücken
23:50	Bluelads4	danach die datei speichern und mir schickön
23:52	__emily__	fertig
23:52	Bluelads4	oki ich schau mal eben :)

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