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Alternatively, you can simply use freenode's webchat service, below. Feel free to change the nick to for example, your player name.

• #arianne (for ideas, contributions and support)
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If you are new to IRC it is well worth reading this short guide before you join. In particular the section on talking, and entering commands, and the section 'Some advice' may be helpful.

Index of logs

#arianne IRC Log for 2010-08-14

Timestamps are in server time. Show join/quit messages

00:06	hendrik	only two days left until twitter will disable http auth.
00:06	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (scripts/events.php content/scripts/events.php): add change zone and poison events, and display only the time in hours and minutes not the full timestamp
00:12	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (scripts/events.php content/scripts/events.php): put outfit events like the other events
00:25	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/item/Present.java: Missing exclamation mark in present message ID: 3041278
00:33	-!-	durkham [~User<(a)>d010115.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #arianne
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00:35	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tests/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/HungryJoshuaTest.java: Update test to match change : story-teller * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/ados/goldsmith/GoldsmithNPC.java: Added a dot after saying "Bye". Fixes bug report ID: 3044109
01:15	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added a component for holding the containers outside the game screen. Needed making MoveableEntityContainer, and getClientHeight from WtPanel public.
01:16	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/j2DClient.java: Moved the bag and character window outside the game screen
01:17	kiheru	there are pretty likely some bugs and weird behaviours left, but there's something for people to test
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10:24	-!-	Nobun [~Nobun<(a)>host205-178-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #arianne
10:28	Nobun	A question... before starting to make a map I would like to know if there is a way to test it locally
10:34	kiheru	Nobun: you can run a local server with the map. the map turorial at http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/HowToUseTiledToCreateStendhalMaps has a link to instructions
10:35	Nobun	yep I read it byt I don't understand how to run a local server with the map (I am noob)
10:35	kiheru	do you have a local server installation?
10:35	Nobun	perhaps not
10:35	Nobun	I don't know
10:35	kiheru	if you don't know, it's pretty unlikely you have
10:36	kiheru	instructions for setting up one are here: http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Host_a_Stendhal_Server
10:36	hendrik	i am playing around with http://jmillerinc.com/2010/05/31/twitter-from-the-command-line-in-python-using-oauth/
10:37	kiheru	pick the correct OS from the links. feel free to ask if you get stuck at some point
10:37	Nobun	I read them too but not clear (not completely). I will try to read again. Thank a lot :)
10:39	kiheru	ah, nice. someone's managed to use oauth
10:45	omero	hey Nobun
10:46	Nobun	uhm... I am afraid I have to wait my return in Florence... here I have only windows and I cannot install things like sql in this pc. Thank again
10:46	Nobun	hi omero :)
10:46	omero	for running a local server you dont need mysql actually
10:47	omero	H2 database will do just as well
10:47	Nobun	thank for info, my friend :) however I cannot install programs here of any kind xD
10:53	kiheru	h2 is included in the distribution. but if your account is extremely limited building the server becomes hard
10:53	hendrik	Nobun, if java is installed (e. g. if you can play), you can do the rest without admin rights.
10:53	omero	but he needs to be able to install at least ant or be able to repack the data files
10:54	hendrik	no.
10:55	omero	ah right
10:56	omero	you can place files in the data directory and they will be read even if not packed in a .jar
10:58	hendrik	yes
10:58	hendrik	and you can even use a normal zip program, if you want to re-jar them.
10:59	omero	then all he needs to do before running the server is to initialize the engine with 'java -cp marauroa.jarjava -cp marauroa.jar;stendhal-server-0.86.jar games.stendhal.server.core.engine.GenerateINI'
11:00	omero	ops
11:00	omero	double paste
11:02	omero	Nobun, before running the server get to the windows command line under the folder where you unpacked the server and type this -> java -cp marauroa.jar;stendhal-server-0.86.jar games.stendhal.server.core.engine.GenerateINI
11:02	kymara	unless he has 0.86.1 of course :)
11:02	omero	yes, that's the idea
11:04	Nobun	I have 0.86.1 xD
11:05	Nobun	I see that there is also a .bat included (but I had to fix it - uses LF instead of CR for end-line markup) xD
11:05	kymara	oh
11:05	kymara	I don'tknow what you mean but if you had to fix anything could you provide a patch?
11:06	kymara	so others get some benefit?
11:06	Nobun	it is simple... windows uses a different way to mark-up end-of-line in text files
11:06	kymara	the start.bat is for use, if you like, after you have initialised the engine with that line abve from omero (Just use the correct version number)
11:06	omero	he means that the bat file has each line terminated by LF (line-feed) character and that wont work
11:06	kymara	yes, i know, i do data import at work
11:06	kymara	/r/n
11:06	kymara	and stuff
11:07	Nobun	hmm better to write directly 0x0d 0xda xD
11:07	omero	lol
11:07	kymara	so I don't know what LF and CR are but I know there's a line ending difference, if you can upload a patch that'd be useful, unless it is something I can write here in emacs
11:07	Nobun	0x0d 0x0a sorry
11:08	Nobun	in linux a line end with 0x0a... un windows with 0x0d 0x0a
11:08	kymara	what would it do then if you tried to run it?
11:08	omero	most editors will let you save the file with the correct end-of-line markers
11:08	Nobun	I don't know I fixed it
11:08	Nobun	yep
11:08	Nobun	exactly what i do
11:08	kymara	the command that i meant to be on the newline won'tbe on a new line,does cmd line care for that
11:09	kymara	cmds can't be ended with something else instead so newlines don't matter?
11:09	Nobun	no
11:09	kymara	well anyway if you have a fixed version, i can commit it ......
11:09	Nobun	it shouldn't be
11:09	Nobun	yep
11:09	kymara	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1111&atid=301111
11:09	Nobun	how can I send it
11:09	Nobun	?
11:09	kymara	--^
11:10	kymara	will just check that doesn't break the regexp for when we change version number
11:10	kymara	that file is supposed to stay up to date you see
11:11	omero	it shouldnt affect the regexp
11:13	Nobun	no don't releted to regex
11:14	kymara	how do you *know* :D
11:14	kymara	did you check it :D
11:14	kymara	it makes melaugh when people justassume things
11:14	Nobun	no xD
11:14	kymara	how do you know the regex doesn'tlook for a long line ending in that specific character
11:14	Nobun	simply if we are talking about registry on windows...
11:15	omero	kymara: you specifically include the end of line in your regex? then no.. it wont affect it
11:15	Nobun	...I know more or less how it works
11:15	Nobun	ah no xD you mean regular expression
11:15	kymara	it just makes me laugh you can both say dogmatically without checking
11:15	Nobun	I misunderstood
11:16	Nobun	I readed reged (like registry editor...) -> regedit
11:16	kymara	right no it's a fairly smple one
11:16	omero	you can laugh but it wont change the fact that your regex doesnt match the 'crlf' or 'lf' markers
11:16	kymara	e.g. match="STENDHAL_VERSION=.*"
11:16	kymara	replace="STENDHAL_VERSION=${version}"
11:16	kymara	omero yes, but i am not sure how you'd know it won't without checking
11:17	kymara	why shouldn't a regex look for end of line characters?
11:17	kymara	i write ones which do use end of line characters all the time
11:17	omero	because you didnt' know the difference in line markers
11:17	Nobun	lol
11:17	kymara	huh?
11:17	kymara	I write ones which use ends of lines all the time
11:17	kymara	and I said I know from data import there is a difference :\r\n vs \n or something
11:17	Nobun	infact all end of lines in stendhal are for linux only xD
11:17	kymara	i just didn'tknow what CR and lF stand for .
11:18	Nobun	kymara
11:18	omero	yes, the $ expression has nothing to do with 'end-of-line' marker
11:18	Nobun	CR = carriage return .... LF = line feed
11:18	omero	s/.*$/replace/
11:18	kymara	why am i even arguing this point, it really doesn't matter :D
11:18	kymara	never mind guys, i'm going to go back to actually doing something useful, Nobun thanks for spotting that in the windows specific file
11:19	omero	will not affect what the 'real' end-of-line marker is
11:19	kymara	byebye!
11:19	Nobun	bye
11:20	Nobun	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3044825&group_id=1111&atid=301111
11:20	Nobun	added the "fixed" runserver.bat
11:21	Nobun	however kymara... yes... the \r\n (in windows) against \n (in linux) should work but it is not 100% safetely
11:22	Nobun	to avoid problems I usually like more to use directly the binary code
11:22	Nobun	instead of \n put
11:22	Nobun	0x0a in linux (no change)
11:23	Nobun	0x0d 0x0a in windows (CR)
11:23	Nobun	in this way you are sure about it will work
11:23	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/entity/Player.java: closed potential NPE paths
11:27	kiheru	the interpreter in windows understands unix line ends, but not all editors do (at least notepad used to be confused by them). thus using windows endings is the right thing for a windows specific file
11:46	kiheru	(regexps *can* change line ends, it's not just very often done. but it does not hurt to check)
11:47	omero	but you have to specifically 'target' them
11:48	omero	the '$' (untill end of line) will match up to the last character before the 'end-of-line' marker (not including it)
11:49	omero	that's the standard in about all regexp standards around
11:50	kymara	how do you know we weren't targetting them
11:50	kymara	was my point!
11:50	kymara	i know that the regexp we use for changing version numbers *do* rely onthe formatting around the rest of theline
11:50	kymara	not just a simple check for say, 0.86 anywhere in any files
11:50	kymara	that would be really stupid.
11:51	kymara	and so if one of the checks also included a line ending (which to my mind is compeletely feasible) then it would fall over. Okay?
11:51	kymara	i was talking out loud to remind myself to check it as much as anything. but i do not see how you can be sure that we don't check for it, so dogmatically.
11:52	omero	if you did target the end-of-line marker, you'd know how to properly 'exclude' it to avoid breaking the file during version changes
11:52	kymara	why take that for granted?
11:52	omero	I could bet Nobun's head
11:52	kymara	have you worked in open source before I wonder? Or ever worked on code which anyone but yourself has contributed to?
11:53	omero	yes indeed
11:53	kymara	You pretty fast learn to assume nothing. And good people on the project who can think of what will be affected by a seemingly minor change, are very valuable.
11:54	Nobun	kymara xD
11:55	Nobun	omero is an expert xD
11:55	Nobun	I know him well
11:55	kymara	and so am I.
11:55	Nobun	I have no doubt about it
11:56	kymara	kiheru, I am testing the changes you made to the cvs head client last night
11:56	Nobun	but it is not a point -> contribute or make an open source program... infact... I did more than one open source application, but I am still a noob
11:56	kymara	should I be ableto drag and drop from character, or only bag?
11:56	kiheru	thank you. anything obviously broken (except closing the windows using the settings panel)
11:57	kymara	the character panel doesn't let me drop anything from it, to gamescreen or to the bag.
11:57	kymara	i could see the icon of the helmet i tried to drag but it would not release
11:58	kymara	and now when i click to that area it has got the positioning wrong, if you know what i mean?
11:58	kymara	clicking on boots i see the helmet still
11:58	kymara	orsometimes the armor
11:58	-!-	durkham1 [~User<(a)>d174218.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #arianne
11:58	kymara	and sometimes a bit below the cloak slot i can make the mouse cursor shwo the shield
11:59	kiheru	oh. they work normally for me :-/
11:59	kymara	it did not generate any client errors, i will check the testserver logs
12:00	kymara	no, nothing there
12:01	kymara	this time it works fine for me, the character panel
12:01	kymara	things like using scrolls from bag and consuming potions are okay
12:02	kymara	and al the checking about allowed slots seems okay
12:02	kymara	shall i keep relogging and try to get the bad panel again?
12:03	kiheru	I can't reproduce that at all. not even with partially obscured panels
12:04	kiheru	incorrect mouse positioning is especially weird. it uses exactly the same code as the gamescreen. just some glue code is new
12:08	Nobun	last question (when you finished)... is there somewhere a complete list of admin actions/command and how to use them? I need them to try different settings and balance maps
12:08	kymara	try /gmhelp in game and our wiki
12:09	kymara	http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Navigation_for_Stendhal_GMs
12:09	kymara	has links to commands under administration, and scripts. but the in game stuff might suffice.
12:10	kymara	kiheru: about closing the stuff with settings panel, understood
12:10	kymara	but i minimised the bag and i can't open it again now
12:10	kymara	by clicking on the -, not the settinsg panel
12:10	Nobun	thank
12:11	kymara	Nobun: yw. if you can't work out something from those please feel free to ask here
12:11	kymara	kiheru: i can minimise character okay, and i think i minised bag alone okay too.but then i minimised both of them and now i can only restore character
12:12	kymara	after relogging i can maximise my bag again now
12:13	kymara	and doing the same steps again doesn't reproduce it -.-
12:13	kiheru	you seem to have a lot of one time bugs I have never seen :-(
12:13	kymara	sorry
12:14	kymara	but then you didn't have the positioning in zone bug
12:14	kymara	that i had
12:14	kymara	you said because my machine was faster
12:14	kymara	and you've never seen that minimap jumping thing
12:14	kymara	now my character stopped restoring
12:18	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/wt/MoveableEntityContainer.java: javadoc fix
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12:19	kiheru	the zone change I could eventyally reproduce with maps in memory. that's why I got it fixed
12:19	kymara	but you knew the cause anyway?
12:20	Nobun	cu soon guys
12:20	kiheru	yes. I had a good idea what could be the reason
12:20	-!-	Nobun [~Nobun<(a)>host205-178-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:21	kymara	I'm sorry :(
12:21	kymara	I guess we need some more people who are willing to help test
12:21	kymara	since this is something people have wanted for so long I'd be verysurprised if people wouldn' thelp if you asked.
12:22	kymara	maybe try some of the older players who might have been ones who asked about it?
12:25	kymara	btw for me the only thing wrong with turning it on and off with settings is thatyou get a white flicker when you do that
12:25	kymara	where the panel used to be
12:25	kymara	what happens for you?
12:26	kiheru	the same. I don't handle closing those windows at all at the moment
12:31	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: do the handling of timedates in php not mysql (sadface)
12:33	kymara	a friend of mine works with someone who writes docs for php.net
12:33	kymara	i am trying to think of suitable punishments
12:33	kymara	but really so far i've only come up with stab in theface
12:39	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/wt/Character.java: Use same spacing as EntityContainer to make the width the same as that of the bag
12:41	kiheru	would making him write software based on the docs qualify as cruel and inhuman punishment?
12:44	kymara	lol
12:45	kymara	i'm starting to think writing anything in php, based on docs or not, is cruel and inhuman
12:45	kymara	did i tell you about my wonderful error yesterday
12:45	kymara	helpful error messages can really make a difference
12:45	kymara	unexpected T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
12:46	kymara	yes indeed that was unexpected ....
12:47	kiheru	lol
12:49	kymara	ah, the minus sign is where it is now because you just removed the cross, right?
12:49	kymara	in the bag and character panels
12:50	kiheru	yes. I'm not sure if hiding those completely is necessary at all. I can add code for handling that if wanted
12:53	kiheru	the positioning of the buttons will be fixed once I get to swingize the wt code and use proper layout managing for them
12:53	kymara	no worries
12:53	kymara	it just explained it to me
12:56	kiheru	should hiding them completely be supported?
12:56	kymara	how woudl you getthem back?
12:56	kymara	via the settings panel?
12:57	kymara	i guess some people might never want to see their keyring.
12:57	kiheru	I suppose so. though I think I should move the settings panel to the side
12:57	kymara	indeed
12:58	kymara	i hope my recent work on it hasn't made all that harder
12:58	kymara	i am looking at real estate now
12:58	kymara	can the keyring slots themselves be made smaller
12:58	kiheru	then the hiding button in the settings panel becomes kind of redundant
12:58	kymara	yes
12:59	kiheru	the side panel can swallow wt components so moving the settings there should not be too hard
12:59	kymara	most keys are quite narrow, but i guess the ring and the lucky charm and the assassins id need full 32 width :/
12:59	kymara	okay. so you could remove the bag, keyring and character buttons if you plan thatthey neverget closed
13:00	kiheru	we could add one more key slot and make it 3x3 :-P
13:00	kymara	yes, i was thinking that
13:00	kymara	but even so i am not sure it quite fits
13:00	kymara	do we need the heading on the character panel (player name)
13:00	kymara	i guess we have to have teh titles if we want them minizeable
13:00	kymara	minimisable
13:00	kiheru	yes
13:01	kymara	i might prefer character on top of bag though
13:01	kymara	if you wouldn't mind
13:01	kiheru	ok. that's easy
13:01	kymara	it's more important to the rp
13:02	kiheru	(is there any way to turn off the double click on tab behaviour of eclipse. it's *never* what I want)
13:03	kymara	heh, i have never done that
13:05	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/j2DClient.java: moved bag below character panel
13:13	kiheru	what should I do about the settings panel? remove the bag, keyring and character but keep the 4 others?
13:13	kymara	if we are not allowing closing of the bag, character and keyring, yes
13:13	kymara	and when you have moved keyring out
13:13	kymara	i'm worrying about containers
13:13	kymara	what is the plan
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13:14	Laguz	hello all
13:14	kiheru	opening any containers that are carried by the player in the side panel, any others on the game screen
13:15	kiheru	the panel will possibly need a scroll bar
13:15	kymara	so a chest will be opened on the game screen
13:16	kymara	but a keyring, backpack, our bags, any carriable-boxes, are in the side panel?
13:16	kymara	hi Laguz
13:16	kiheru	yes. I think keeping chests and corpses should remain on the screen; opening them on the side panel would be confusing
13:17	kiheru	basically it would be that anything opened from the side panel would open in the side panel
13:21	kiheru	(and keep open until the player either closes it or drops the container)
13:22	kymara	okay
13:22	kymara	but then how will we haveenough space
13:22	kymara	we limit ourselves with how many containers players can collect
13:32	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/ContainerPanel.java: Define minimum size of the subcomponents
13:32	kiheru	I don't have a particularly good idea how to handle a large number of containers
13:41	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/ (grammar.php website.php): initial grammar rules for website, starting with a simple a/an function
13:42	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/content/scripts/character.php: Fix Stendhal website - Grammar error ID: 3015520 using a/an rule
13:42	kiheru	I can add scroll bars to the panel, but that's not particularly pretty
13:42	kymara	mm
13:43	kymara	i guess atm it's too soon to worry about it
13:43	kymara	and i should hush
13:47	kiheru	when the bag, character and keyring are all open it's already higher than the panel
13:47	kymara	right
13:47	kymara	thats' what i was looking at, and i think 3x3 wont' fixthat
13:47	kymara	bad kymara for allowing rings and lucky charms into the keyring:(
13:48	kymara	it could line up next to the bag
13:49	kiheru	would it look odd if I made the panel reach to the bottom of the window?
13:50	kymara	buddies does already
13:50	kymara	i think thatwould look fine. symmetric
13:51	kiheru	I guess I'll still need to add scroll bars for those with a small screen, but anyone with a small screen who keeps all the windows open at the same time is crazy anyway
13:56	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/scripts/grammar.php: fixed copyright statement
13:56	kymara	oh,sorry.
13:57	hendrik	no reason to be sorry.
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14:10	hendrik	http://twitter.com/stendhalgame
14:11	hendrik	I did not notice that the first posting went through because the program crashed.
14:11	hendrik	the crash is now fixed.
14:14	kymara	okay
14:14	kymara	is this with oauth?
14:14	*	kymara has got the website grammar of reporting kills better than stendhal game grammar now :D
14:14	kymara	i didn'trealise the game doesn't actually apply teh rules i was making up for the website
14:15	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/ContainerPanel.java: Scroll bars if needed
14:15	kiheru	hehe. now you can port the better rules to the grammar pkg
14:15	kymara	it's related to type
14:15	kymara	http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/User_talk:Kymara#grammar_rules_for_website
14:15	kymara	so it's not about the grammar as much as the object being described (player or creature)
14:16	kymara	so now we have:
14:16	kymara	A giant killed kymara at 13:11
14:16	kymara	kymara killed an archer elf at 13:11
14:16	kymara	so it uses an a/an only if it's a creature
14:17	kiheru	ok
14:17	kymara	and it gets the linking urls right
14:20	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: use a/an as appropriate to refer to creatures
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14:29	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: just exclude baby dragons who kill for now
14:32	kymara	hm, i hoped most queries would use the timedate index
14:33	kymara	but the quest one is using param1
14:33	kymara	which is not a very efficient way
14:33	kymara	perhaps i should force the timedate index on that one
14:36	kymara	if i take out the param1 check (which is the one looking for only daily, weekly, deathmatch, etc
14:36	kymara	then it uses timedate
14:36	kymara	but explain says also:
14:36	kymara	Using where; Using temporary
14:36	kymara	which i assume means it has to use a temporary table whichwe want to avoid anyway
14:38	kymara	without a 'distinct' it doesn't have to use temporary
14:38	kymara	but that was needed really:/ unless i can persuade php to do it
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14:55	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/client/gui/j2DClient.java: Moved the keyring to the side panel. Made the side panel extend to the bottom of the screen
15:10	hendrik	if it is not possible to optimize those queries, we could use a second table.
15:11	hendrik	and delete that every day.
15:11	hendrik	i mean delete everything that is older than one day.
15:11	hendrik	this has the nice side effect that we can log things that we don't want to store long term.
15:12	kymara	i was thinking about triggers
15:12	kymara	it's perfectly fast if i dont try a distinct andremove smeof the filters
15:13	hendrik	it might be possible to tell mysql which index to use.
15:13	kymara	sure you can
15:13	kymara	but doing the distinct may be slow anyway
15:14	kymara	USE INDEX and FORCE INDEX
15:16	madmetzger	i have started to implement first stuff for zone achievements
15:17	postman-bot	nobun rented a sign saying "if someone offer you an help without asking anything would be polite to NOT answer in bad way. You can simply say "no thank"."
15:17	madmetzger	i plan to add a new attribute to a zone which can be considered while calculating if a particular zone achievement is fullfilled
15:18	kymara	okay, so you decided that over the other ideas?
15:18	madmetzger	hm?
15:18	madmetzger	yes, i think it's helpful to have that flag for "exclusion"
15:19	hendrik	what flag?
15:19	madmetzger	the flag says "this zone is not relevant for achievements"
15:19	madmetzger	for example int_semos_house would get that flag
15:19	kymara	http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/Stendhal_Achievement_Development right down at the bottom, was the result of some disussion before
15:20	kymara	you asked me to document that discussion on the wiki page but i could not see any obvious place to put it so it's just atthe end.
15:20	madmetzger	ah, yes
15:20	madmetzger	the flag is better described there
15:21	madmetzger	i decided at least against the hardcoded lists
15:23	madmetzger	okay, i wanted to ask if someone has an idea for a name for that flag
15:23	madmetzger	my idea is atm to call it "accessibleToAll"
15:23	kymara	there was another idea
15:23	kymara	not a hardcoded list of ones
15:24	kymara	but a hardcoded expression to check.
15:24	kymara	i think that all 'house' should be excluded
15:24	kymara	yes that excludes felinas house and ados ross house and ados haunted house
15:24	kymara	but also catches all the player owned houses and semos house.
15:25	kymara	also i think fado lovers rooms, which is again easy to catch all at once
15:25	madmetzger	oh, i didn't have that idea in mind
15:25	kymara	what other zones should be excluded
15:25	madmetzger	maze
15:25	madmetzger	vault
15:25	madmetzger	?
15:25	kymara	they aren't froma region anyway.
15:25	kymara	they don't have _semos_ or _ados_ in
15:25	madmetzger	but they don't need to be excluded
15:25	kymara	so when you are checking for all semos ones, you dont' see them anyway
15:26	madmetzger	that's right
15:26	kymara	and the overall achievement is a meta one from each region.
15:26	kymara	so they're not included as far as i am concerened
15:26	madmetzger	yes, the overall one is a meta one
15:26	kymara	i am thinking about all which fit the patterns we described
15:26	kymara	start with an int, and then the region, for visiting building ina region
15:27	kymara	start with 0, and then a region, for outside zones
15:27	kymara	starts with a -N, and then a region, for all underground zones
15:27	kymara	and exclude 'house' and 'lovers_room' for the internals.
15:28	madmetzger	sounds like a feasible idea
15:28	madmetzger	zones can tell atm if they are an interior one or not
15:29	kymara	ok, that too, you can use the level attributes and so on
15:31	kiheru	"apartment" too, I think
15:32	kymara	yes
15:32	kymara	for athor apartments
15:36	madmetzger	good
15:36	kymara	but it'sonlyanother option for you
15:36	kymara	a flag may still be better
15:37	madmetzger	a flag might be better but would mean a bit work in the xml files, not sure
15:39	madmetzger	my idea was to add convenience methods to StendhalRPWorld which give for example all zones of a region
15:52	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/content/scripts/events.php: order by most recent events first not last
16:03	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/content/scripts/events.php: cache events for 60 seconds
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17:52	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (scripts/events.php content/scripts/events.php): add equipping events
17:54	-!-	Nobun [~Nobun<(a)>host56-245-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #arianne
17:55	Nobun	About Deathmatch... something require change
17:55	Nobun	first of all
17:56	Nobun	if you fight alone in DM is not polite fighting against archers
17:56	Nobun	becouse you are forced to stand in spikes
17:56	kymara	I think there is a bug report on that.
17:56	kymara	Indeed, but it's generally not wise to do DM alone anyway
17:56	storyteller	yes, I reported it already
17:56	kymara	since the word *Death* in deathmatch implies you might need help :P
17:57	Nobun	yep kymara... but is a challenge... and in my little opinon any challenge should be done ALSO alone
17:57	kymara	No, we like to encourage team play
17:57	Nobun	surely should be not easy
17:57	kymara	A wise man knows when he needs helps from friends
17:57	Nobun	forcing is different to encourage
17:58	Nobun	let me explain
17:58	kymara	of course, that is why it's in the 'bugs' section not feature requests
17:58	Nobun	if you say "you cannot do alone" you are forcing team
17:58	kymara	can you help us fix it maybe?
17:58	kymara	I think that the archer ai needs to consider spikes
17:58	kymara	in our code spikes are an area entity, a 'damaging area'
17:58	Nobun	or an idea could be they can be damaged like any unit
17:58	Nobun	so you could take benefit other than damage
17:58	kymara	so they would need to consider the area near them, just like player pathfinding considers the resistance
17:59	kymara	hm, no i think that would make it too easy
17:59	Nobun	uhm
17:59	kymara	you coudl just drag the enemey onto the spikes, for any enemy
17:59	kymara	and let the spikes kill them. we rejected that idea quite a long time ago
17:59	Nobun	indeed
17:59	Nobun	you are right
17:59	kymara	(In fact we rejected it when spikes were first introduced at the catacombs)
18:00	kymara	but yes of course we'd want to fix it. fixes take time and i happen to have other stuff i'm working on, kiheru for example is working on the client (has anyone helped test that except me yet??)
18:00	kymara	what were the other things about deathmatch?
18:00	Nobun	so perhaps add an exception? (if 1 player only don't spawn some units like archers) could be an idea?
18:01	kymara	could be a short term fix
18:01	kymara	maybe you can add that idea to the bug report?
18:01	Nobun	yep
18:01	kymara	thanks
18:01	Nobun	(OT did you see if my runserver.bat uploaded correctly?)
18:02	Nobun	storyteller... can you say me the link of your report... it seems to me wiser to add an answer to your already opened report
18:02	storyteller	okay, moment
18:03	storyteller	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3044001&group_id=1111&atid=101111
18:03	Nobun	thank a lot
18:03	storyteller	you're welcome
18:05	Nobun	uhm... it seems you cannot reply if you are not signed (not like when you open a new topic)
18:06	kymara	do you have any openid
18:06	Nobun	no
18:06	kymara	you don't necessarily need a sf account you see
18:06	kymara	really? no google, blogger, livejournal, flickr, yahoo, aol accounts?
18:07	Nobun	xD no. Only yahoo but it is personal (I am an anonimous person xD)
18:07	kymara	okay
18:08	Nobun	the reason why I never hosted my little applications in sourceforge... they ask your real name (I don't know to publicize xD)
18:08	Nobun	I don't whant xD
18:08	Nobun	sorry :P
18:08	kymara	uh, i didn't have my real name on my sf account for ages.
18:08	kymara	it was just my first name for a long time.
18:09	kymara	story for example just has storyteller as his public name: http://sourceforge.net/users/story-teller/
18:09	Nobun	lol if you try to subscribe for hosting opensource they require it (mandatory) and you cannot hidden from public
18:09	kymara	okay, if you say so.
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18:10	Nobun	perhaps something is changed or perhaps I see bad... I don't know :D
18:10	Nobun	however... trying to add a sourceforge account... I have no openID so it seems the only solution (except open a new topic)
18:11	kymara	if you are likely to be making bugs reports, feature requests and patches it could be a good idea to have one
18:11	kymara	for enabling you to track the outcome of each
18:15	hrossa	Hey guys... I've been playing for a few days. It's fun. Nice work.
18:16	kymara	hrossa: welcome. Delighted to hear it
18:16	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/ (3 files in 2 dirs): renamed TwitterAccess to AsynchronousProgramExecutor in prepartion to using an external tool for posting twitter message in the future because Twitter is about to change the existing API.
18:17	storyteller	Thank you, hrossa :)
18:20	hrossa	That's really all I had to say. :)
18:21	hendrik	by the way: If someone of the server admins wants to post to the stendhalgame twitter account, you can use bin/twitter-stendhalgame 'some message'
18:21	hendrik	thank you, hrossa.
18:21	Nobun	lol... hendrik think all thing of evolutions xD
18:34	hendrik	Nobun, what do you mean?
18:35	kymara	very loosely if i was made to interpret that I would think he meant 'hendrik, you are thinking all the time about future evolution of the internet'
18:35	Nobun	your message before the mine xD
18:36	hendrik	the one about the command line tool for twitter?
18:36	Nobun	yep
18:36	hendrik	i still don't know what you mean.
18:36	Nobun	future -> becouse twitter and social-network seems to be very popular now
18:37	Nobun	so adding something that can be interconnected with them is a sort of step-for-future xD
18:37	kymara	http://twitter.com/stendhaltrade
18:37	hendrik	ah, okay.
18:37	kymara	that has been up for quite some time now, the messages from Harold
18:38	Nobun	^^
18:38	hendrik	but we can use the stendhalgame account to be a bit more open about what we are doing.
18:38	hendrik	well, we are open in this channel, but for people who do not read it.
18:39	kymara	indeed
18:39	Nobun	I don't like so much social networks, but a lot of people do... it seems a good idea
18:39	hendrik	the nice thing about twitter is that you can follow people using rss without having to use an account.
18:40	Nobun	interesting
18:41	hendrik	in the link from kymara above, on the right side there is: RSS feed of stendhaltrade's tweets
18:41	hendrik	and you can use that anonymously in firefox, thunderbird or whatever your favorite rss reader is.
18:43	Nobun	^^ it is more detailed then Harold himself xD (you can see also stats) xD
18:47	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/util/AsynchronousProgramExecutor.java: execute an external tool specified in server.ini
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19:12	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: nhnb VERSION_00_RELEASE_86_REVISION_01 * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backported new twitter code
19:21	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (scripts/events.php content/scripts/events.php): use pictures to represent items and creatures in the event history instead of words. (note: not using final 'style' yet)
20:15	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (scripts/events.php content/scripts/events.php): use icons for player images and scale icons down to small size
20:18	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: get height-width ratio right
20:21	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: use a <br> not a <p> to get them closer together
20:25	hendrik	that looks really nice.
20:26	kymara	it doesn't use the right css still
20:26	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/scripts/events.php: make the equip events just frm the last 5 minutes also to try to break up the block a bit
20:29	CIA-37	arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added NPC created by erdnuggel and implemented by Bluelads4 from NPC ideas page
20:29	Bluelads4	hihi :)
20:30	kymara	yay
20:32	Bluelads4	:)
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22:02	kymara	hendrik: is tehre any risk to getting players to test the new client
22:03	kymara	i mean will it cause any issues with update or anything?
22:03	kymara	i guess, if they keep playing with it instead of main, it won't itself get updated
22:03	hendrik	if they extract it into another folder, there should be no problem.
22:03	hendrik	no, but it would complain.
22:05	storyteller	I'll test a bit again now...
22:05	kymara	thanks story. there just hasn't been enough testing of this client so i think i'll resort to making a sign.
22:06	kymara	i guess i shoudl revert my text bold-font change locally first before i build a client for them
22:07	hendrik	kiheru, i got a partly grey window on the right side.
22:07	kymara	hendrik, are both bag and character enabled
22:07	kymara	at the settings panel?
22:07	hendrik	both disabled.
22:07	kymara	it's known atm that disabling them at the settings panel makes just a strange thing on the right
22:08	kymara	ok, so youhave to have them both enabled please.
22:08	hendrik	but after enabling them they take up almost the space.
22:08	kymara	that's right
22:08	storyteller	Ah, I first wondered why there are these white boxes on the right side, but they are for the static panels ;)
22:08	hendrik	buth there is still a little grey box.
22:08	kymara	could you take a screenshot please andupload it?
22:08	kymara	im not sure what you mean
22:08	hendrik	i am working on that.
22:11	kymara	we were discussing earlier what to do about settings panel
22:11	kymara	and we think that we should also move that over, and removethe buttons for bag, character, keyring
22:12	kymara	as the bag, character and keyring will not be bale to be totally disabled
22:12	kymara	but you can minimise them
22:12	storyteller	I think there is a bug with the HungryJoshua Quest... Joshua reacts on "food" as with saying "wood" : [22:10] <storyteller> food
22:12	storyteller	[22:10] <Joshua> I need some wood to keep my furnace lit. You can find any amount of it just lying around in the forest.
22:13	kymara	i guess that is the parser
22:13	kymara	like for spelling mistakes.
22:13	kymara	martinf is in chat but not here ;)
22:13	storyteller	and I found an error with the bag
22:14	storyteller	I grab an item (for example one in the lowest row) and i take the one above it
22:14	kymara	can you actually drop stuff to the ground?
22:14	hendrik	was the limit allways 256k ?
22:15	kymara	yes i think so
22:15	storyteller	yes, i can drop items
22:15	kymara	if your image is bigger you should be able ot reduce it a lot jst by cropping it
22:15	kymara	storyteller: okay, interesting, and if you relog is the problemstill there?
22:15	storyteller	moment, I'll try
22:16	kymara	actualkly if you coudl try right click look first
22:16	kymara	which do you get the description for?
22:16	storyteller	hmm... now it works
22:16	kymara	hm, okay
22:16	kymara	the very first time i tried it i had that too
22:17	kymara	and then after that, not ever
22:17	storyteller	hmm...
22:18	storyteller	yes, now the problem seems to be gone
22:18	kymara	it shoudl be compatible with main server
22:18	kymara	so could you play with it please over the next days
22:18	kymara	and see if you get it again?
22:18	storyteller	yes, I can do
22:18	kymara	the difference with me was that i couldn't even drop the things from the slots
22:19	storyteller	hmm...
22:19	kymara	but i had the same thing about it picking the wrong row for the item
22:19	kymara	but only the first time
22:19	storyteller	yes
22:19	kymara	maybe it's something in widnows properties
22:19	storyteller	hmm, can be...
22:21	storyteller	Hmm, maybe there could be an alternative image below the bag panel etc so that there is no white box
22:21	kymara	that is a short term thing.
22:21	kymara	it's just that it's not properly implemented yet about the complete closure
22:21	kymara	open the keyring and you'll see it goes there.
22:21	kymara	that's not part of what kiheru needs testing as he knows about that
22:22	storyteller	moment I have to get the keyring fixed :D That was why I recognized the error with Joshua ;)
22:22	kymara	the things that shoudl work are:
22:22	storyteller	okay, what needs to be tested?
22:22	kymara	there are bags and character and keyring in the side panel
22:22	kymara	you should be able to minimise it and maximie with the minus
22:23	kymara	throughout the whole of the testing please have the bag, character and keyring butons activated in settinsg panel
22:23	kymara	turning off at settings panel by pressing the buttons there is *not* implemented
22:23	kymara	you *will* see strange panels on the side if you turn them off at the settings panel
22:23	storyteller	yes, I can minimize and maximize the panels
22:23	kymara	you should be able to move items around normally from game screen, chest, bag, character, keyring
22:23	kymara	you should be able to use them
22:24	kymara	drag and sdrop should select the correct item (so it looks like that doesn't work in at least some cases)
22:24	storyteller	ah, by the way: Does Xoderos give you the 5 sandwiches or do you have to get them on your own?
22:25	kymara	you make them
22:25	storyteller	ah okay
22:25	storyteller	yes, thanks for the answer
22:25	kymara	actually when i did it most recently i gambled for them :D
22:26	storyteller	:D
22:27	storyteller	well, I can move aroudn items, use them drop them pick them up again
22:27	kymara	okay. it seems like some bugs may happen not at every login.
22:27	kymara	like the ones both you and me saw
22:27	kymara	but i don't know how to reproduce them
22:28	kymara	i'm glad someone else but me saw something though, so thats good
22:28	storyteller	hmm...
22:29	storyteller	and I recognized that Joshua only reacts on "food" with the sentence to "wood" when you dont have the sendwiches with you. If you have them, he reacts with the correct sentence. So this is no problem though he answers wrong the first time...
22:30	kymara	okay, he has no defined response for food if you haven't got them i guess
22:30	kymara	so he doesn't even try to say the food one, but wood was close.
22:30	storyteller	hmm, yes
22:32	storyteller	also strange: I just fixed the keyring, but there came no item slots below it...
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22:32	kymara	do you now need to maximise it?
22:33	storyteller	well at the keyring is no minus and with the settings panel it doesnt work
22:33	kymara	no minus? weird, i have one
22:34	kymara	are you fully up to date with cvs head?
22:35	kymara	you're right, if you started out without it activated you now don't get the minus on it
22:35	kymara	could you make a bug report please?
22:35	storyteller	I update everytime I start eclipse and sometimes when I see in the log here that there has been something updated
22:36	storyteller	there are no changes, I have the most actual version
22:36	kymara	i justtested it locally with a new player and i see the same thing
22:36	kymara	yep
22:36	storyteller	hmm...
22:36	kymara	coudl you make a bug report please?
22:36	storyteller	yes; I'll do :)
22:36	kymara	thanks a lot
22:36	storyteller	You're welcome, Kymara :)
22:47	hendrik	storyteller, actual = in fact = tatsaechlich; most recent = aktuell
22:47	storyteller	ah :/
22:47	storyteller	false friend
22:48	hendrik	yes
22:50	storyteller	shall I add the info or doesnt it matter?
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22:56	storyteller	the keyring problem is also not gone after relog
22:56	hrossa	I noticed Stichard Ralman in Ados. Nice Touch.
22:56	hrossa	Left him a beer
22:56	*	kymara giggles
22:57	hrossa	As in free
22:57	hrossa	:)
22:57	kymara	we need a take him a katana quest
22:57	storyteller	:)
22:57	*	hendrik giggles.
22:57	kymara	but i never got round to that
22:57	storyteller	why that, Kymara? ;)
22:57	kymara	from mine and hendrik's favourite comic
22:57	hrossa	You could do a /lot/ with Stichard.
22:58	kymara	http://xkcd.com/225/
22:58	storyteller	ah okay ;)
22:58	kymara	based on that comic, some people in real life sent him a katana, to the FSF offices
22:58	hrossa	Don't tell me if a Gill Bates is in some version of Ghennom.
22:58	storyteller	:D
22:58	hendrik	oh, i thought it was the other way round:
22:58	hendrik	"Mehrfach haben Fans fiktive Vorgänge des Webcomics auf die Realität übertragen. So wurde entsprechend der Szene von xkcd Nr.225 Richard Stallman ein Katana zugesandt"
22:59	hendrik	According to wikipedia.
22:59	storyteller	hehe
22:59	kymara	eheh, Gill would have to be a female
23:01	kymara	hendrik: http://blog.xkcd.com/2007/04/19/life-imitates-xkcd-part-ii-richard-stallman/
23:01	storyteller	hehe :D
23:03	kymara	storyteller: i think your description of the keyring issue is clear, thank you
23:03	hrossa	I think leaving a "beer as in free" for Stichard should gain you experience -- or some attack power, or something...
23:03	storyteller	okay, Kymara :)
23:03	kymara	it could be a quest, also
23:04	storyteller	but the katana quest would be nice then ;D
23:04	kymara	but then he'd specifically need to take it from you
23:04	kymara	coding a quest where an npc just looks for the presence of an item on the ground near them - more of a challenge
23:05	storyteller	;)
23:06	*	kymara is thinking back to the meeting where she listed all NPCs in the game, and trying to remember how many of them came from a real life person, clever joke, or other play on words.
23:06	storyteller	hehe :D
23:06	hrossa	:)
23:06	storyteller	yes there where quite many ;)
23:07	hrossa	Like?
23:08	kymara	a lot of things can be got if you just spell the name backwards
23:08	storyteller	hehe
23:08	kymara	i named an entire city after a developer
23:08	hendrik	and he did not notice for years :-/
23:08	kymara	till i told it ...
23:08	storyteller	;)
23:09	hendrik	well you did not.
23:09	hrossa	Hm... Nemrac... Doesn't ring a bell...
23:09	hendrik	You just gave an obvious hint.
23:09	hrossa	Nodrog...
23:09	kymara	hehe
23:09	storyteller	hehe
23:09	kymara	they are real names though in english
23:10	hrossa	Ah... Peesh! yes.
23:10	kymara	right, i shoudl get back to website
23:10	hrossa	Oh...
23:11	hrossa	Sorry... misspelled
23:11	kymara	peehs ?
23:11	hrossa	never mind.
23:11	kymara	hendrik, at one point you thought the recent events could go on the main page
23:11	kymara	do you still want that, or a separate page?
23:12	hendrik	a little box perhaps, but i don't know where it should be.
23:12	hendrik	and it needs to be really fast on the main page.
23:12	kymara	yes :/ i'm not sure it's really fast right now.
23:12	storyteller	at one of the gravestones
23:13	kymara	storyteller: like showing some of the events in the actual box
23:13	kymara	so if you picture one of the current menu boxes
23:13	kymara	and instead of that put the recent events
23:13	kymara	i was thinking i might even go in the main content section above or next to the first news article
23:13	kymara	*it might
23:13	kymara	storyteller: do you want to see it? i guess it's nearly ready now
23:13	storyteller	ah okay, so having a whole new panel somewhere?
23:14	storyteller	yes, please :)
23:14	kymara	http://stendhalgame.org/?id=content/scripts/events
23:14	storyteller	ah okay :)
23:14	storyteller	so you need a place for the link to it?
23:16	kymara	or hendrik was suggesting showing them on the main page
23:16	storyteller	hmm...
23:16	storyteller	ah well, I don't know if that should be on the main page...
23:16	storyteller	(sorry Hendrik...)
23:17	storyteller	maybe showing only the last 5 ones on the main page...
23:17	storyteller	but not that entire list...
23:17	kymara	right
23:17	kymara	not all would fit
23:18	kymara	but for now can just add with an icon
23:18	storyteller	having let's say 5 in a small box just over the news
23:18	storyteller	below the walking dwarf
23:18	hrossa	Oh... for the beer... You just need to have Stitchard just notice when you say "free" that you have a beer...
23:19	hendrik	3 may be enough.
23:19	storyteller	yes
23:20	hendrik	the uncashed version needs to be fast.
23:20	hendrik	perhaps we should stick with the extra page for now.
23:20	storyteller	The panel may say something like "What's going on in Stendhal?" /Faiumoni/the world/etc...
23:20	storyteller	okay
23:21	storyteller	at the "Players" panel
23:21	storyteller	below the "31 Players Online" link
23:23	storyteller	it may say "Events" or something
23:34	kymara	that's fine
23:34	kymara	it' more i was just thinking what to put as the actual icon
23:37	storyteller	an "?"? or a player and a creature fighting?
23:37	kymara	i was thinking about a blood drop (since its so small a button) but maybe tat is gruesome
23:37	storyteller	hmm...
23:38	kymara	a little rat icon?
23:38	storyteller	yes, thats nice

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