Stendhal Development Meeting 2011-08-09/Chatlog

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There is a result log at Stendhal Development Meeting 2011-08-09.

[19:59] <hendrik> Hello everyone and thanks for joining.
[19:59] <redpawn> hello
[19:59] <Bluelads4> hello :)
[19:59] <latifundio> hi
[19:59] <kistedhal> hallo
[19:59] <rainbowmocus> hi
[19:59] <paulthompson> hello and yvw
[19:59] <storyteller> Hi :)
[19:59] <kosch> hu hu
[19:59] <tornado> hey
[20:00] <hendrik> I'd like to talk about new players.
[20:00] <paulthompson> me =)
[20:00] <kistedhal> :o)
[20:00] <hendrik> And I mean really new, level 1 to 10, and perhaps level 11 to 50.
[20:00] <paulthompson> 9th day for me
[20:00] <paulthompson> this is my 9th day
[20:00] <hendrik> There are a lot of players who quit the game early.
[20:00] <paulthompson> i just play 18 hrs a day lol
[20:00] <tornado> lol leds
[20:00] <Bluelads4> :P
[20:00] <moonligth> hello
[20:00] <hendrik> And I think we should try to understand why those players stop playing and improve those things.
[20:01] <cloverleaf> damn, here i can't get out
[20:01] <fhunter> hi
[20:01] <hendrik> A couple of years ago we had a similar meeting and it did help a lot.
[20:01] <Bluelads4> hi
[20:01] <storyteller> psst
[20:01] <hendrik> In the past only about 10% of all players logged in a second time. Now it is 50%.
[20:01] <paulthompson> well i found it very easy to start there is alot of helpful players and plenty of differnt mobs to grind on to make grinding much less boring
[20:02] <Bluelads4> :)
[20:02] <latifundio> u got lucky lol
[20:02] <hendrik> This may still seems low, but it is consistent with other games. Second Life has 50%, too. And in Portal 2, 60% of the players completed the tutorial.
[20:02] <superkym> But they paid for that game.
[20:02] <redpawn> yeah
[20:02] <paulthompson> tornado and soniccuz and dagul has made my experience wonderful
[20:02] hendrik nods. * <nowiki>[20:02] <soniccuz> ^^
[20:03] <tornado> :D
[20:03] <hendrik> So our 50% are very good.
[20:03] <hendrik> Let's focus on level 1 to 10.
[20:03] <hendrik> So players who like to play but somehow get lost or frustrated.
[20:03] <paulthompson> you have a good group of core player here more advertising may bring those hardcore gamers to your game maybe
[20:04] <superkym> paulthompson, this meeting isn't about how to get more new players to log in
[20:04] <hendrik> If you think back at your early days: What things were difficult for you?
[20:04] <superkym> it's about how to get people who do try the game, to have the best experience
[20:04] <paulthompson> im sorry im done go on =)
[20:04] <latifundio> got beated all up by a gnome when searching for arandula
[20:04] <superkym> np paulthompson. it just make sense to get the new player experience right, first.
[20:04] <latifundio> lol
[20:05] <fhunter> tutorial level maybe?
[20:05] <tornado> there should be in group shared EXP, so we could help more maybe to new players
[20:05] <tornado> players which get helps on the beggining they like more game then, ( i know in my case) :)
[20:05] <tornado> while i was nab
[20:05] <paulthompson> that would help alot i know a game that when you go in group mode the exp is shared with a % depending on there lvls
[20:05] <redpawn> group shared XP? i don't like that..
[20:06] <hendrik> I wonder if players get lost. The herb is quite a bit away, and if you follow the road from semos village you end up somewhere near Ados.
[20:06] <latifundio> yup
[20:06] <superkym> well, that quest isn't even obvious to new players now
[20:06] <tornado> there is atlas to not get lost :D
[20:06] <fhunter> xp points for eating food, like 1xp for on hp gained, but only normal food, no potions
[20:06] <kosch> my 2 things i want to mention: 1. i think new players need more small goals to reach. achievements is a good way - but more integrated in the storyline maybe. 2. there should be a flying carpet or mountain railway from semos to ados because these are the two main citys and new players always wants to explore adosquests in a fast way
[20:06] <superkym> I sit and watch people start the game, next to me, without telling them what to do. they don't get far - they don't know how to talk to npcs or get quests
[20:07] <sakishrist> One thing that I think dissapoints new players is the slow rising of level compared to the new regions that can be explored. What I mean is that you have tou play quite a few hours to have access to some areas.
[20:07] <sakishrist> and I agree with kosch
[20:07] <superkym> it's difficult to know where you can go, isn't it, sakishrist?
[20:07] <redpawn> right
[20:07] <tornado> yes on the beggining
[20:08] <redpawn> signs in dangerous zones would be a good start, maybe
[20:08] <paulthompson> yup i died alot adventuring to far out lol
[20:08] <superkym> does it matter if you happent o die early on because you go to the wrong place?
[20:08] <paulthompson> that and lag gotme a bunch my first 5 days
[20:08] <fhunter> roads could be less dangerous than the rest of the land
[20:08] <jesco> and if you go to high level places and you die i think they get angry and quite the game
[20:08] <kosch> naga hole ;)
[20:08] <paulthompson> no it is lesson learned to me its all part of the game
[20:08] <paulthompson> maga hole bad
[20:08] <redpawn> LOL
[20:08] <superkym> that has a warning, kosch. and there are signs on the way to ados
[20:08] <redpawn> Naga hole!
[20:08] <paulthompson> nage*
[20:08] <storyteller> Well, some time ago there was build this fence around semos village and I think things like that help a lot to not get lost somewhere at the beginning
[20:08] <redpawn> got me too
[20:08] <hendrik> Perhaps we should add a wall around Semos City, to make it look more like a city? And add some NPCs as guards at the roads leading to Ados and Nalwor?
[20:08] <superkym> but i guess, they are not clear enough?
[20:09] <latifundio> it matter when the exp penality and loss of few items get u back to zeroe
[20:09] <tornado> hendrik
[20:09] <superkym> i'm wondering about warning sounds rather than signs - would that help?
[20:09] <fhunter> yes. probably
[20:09] <redpawn> not every one has sound turned on
[20:09] <redpawn> dangerous looking signs
[20:09] <redpawn> in red or with a skull
[20:09] <paulthompson> my sound is always off i listen to music while i grind
[20:09] <fhunter> skeletons on the ground
[20:10] <superkym> mmm, i guess they could already read 'danger' and then you read to get more info
[20:10] <kistedhal> I didn't find that dying is demotivating... you cannot really explore the world without dying
[20:10] <storyteller> a tutorial/warning sign which pops up when you leave the safe city
[20:10] <redpawn> yes, maybe
[20:10] <superkym> i'm wondering about ways to suggest to players which are the good places to go, too
[20:10] <hendrik> ...Into dangers directions
[20:10] <tornado> yes kym but there should be more places with a warining though
[20:10] <Bluelads4> or maybe what hendrik suggested, more npcs like phalk?
[20:10] <paulthompson> yes maybe when you enter a area that is beyond your lvl there should be a auto message of sorts
[20:10] <tornado> warning*
[20:11] <superkym> can npcs be there to guide you to good areas as well as warn you from bad?
[20:11] <redpawn> (i like the idea of removing dangerous creatures from the roads)
[20:11] <hendrik> yes.
[20:11] <superkym> thats not possible, though - they can be dragged
[20:11] <tornado> yes good idea
[20:11] <Bluelads4> that would maybe also be nice... like you can meet several npcs walking on roads for example and when you meet them they could react and talk to you directly
[20:11] <hendrik> What do we want new players to do?
[20:11] <Bluelads4> like shhh danger comming
[20:11] <superkym> i would bet there are not many placed directly on a road, naturally.
[20:11] <tornado> lol blue
[20:11] <storyteller> maybe there couldbe NPCs who check your Level and if they see you have a too low level for that area they guide you back to the safe area
[20:11] <hendrik> semos village, semos city, semos plains?
[20:12] <superkym> semos mine town, semos dungeons
[20:12] <superkym> semos forest
[20:12] <storyteller> yes, Bluelads4
[20:12] <redpawn> i like that idea
[20:12] <tornado> smart storyteller :))
[20:12] <storyteller> thanks :)
[20:13] <latifundio> i think the camera staying behind affects a lot
[20:13] <latifundio> it should move more to the direction facing or moving
[20:13] <redpawn> NPCs guiding back? Is that easy to achieve?
[20:13] <storyteller> the NPCs could tell you the way
[20:13] <superkym> redpawn, i think it wouldbe possible to always work out what direction to travel to get back to semos
[20:13] <hendrik> it's easy to let them tell you warning if you get close.
[20:13] <superkym> we do have global coordinates.
[20:14] <Bluelads4> or something like npcs on the way you meet give you maps about how to return
[20:14] <redpawn> okay..telling the way, that's easier :)
[20:14] <paulthompson> i dont understand how those work really
[20:14] <superkym> paulthompson, zynn iwuhos in the library explains those.
[20:14] <paulthompson> ty i will look into that
[20:14] <storyteller> maybe a map you get at the beginning from hayunn naratha and there is a moving dot on it which marks your position
[20:14] <superkym> (see again: how do players know who explains what?)
[20:15] <superkym> storyteller, that's a minimap but with more zones?
[20:15] <storyteller> yes
[20:15] <storyteller> semos area
[20:15] <paulthompson> i hardly know anything about this game i just went out 18+ hrs a day and gathered potions and food. plus grinding for lvls or trainnig with friends
[20:15] <hikaru> you need a index npc, who shows all interesting words and directs you to the npc who explains the topic
[20:16] <Bluelads4> that would be a nice idea
[20:16] <redpawn> nice idea
[20:16] <superkym> what about using a map?
[20:16] <storyteller> There could be a map of the Semos Area and rough directions where the other cities are
[20:16] <kosch> map is good idea
[20:16] <superkym> it might be easier to visualise it than listen
[20:16] <sakishrist> doesnt diogenes "give" a map?
[20:16] <Bluelads4> just of semos city
[20:16] <hendrik> just of semos city.
[20:16] <superkym> monogenes givesa semos map with buildings marked
[20:16] <superkym> julius gives an ados map
[20:16] <hendrik> I did some work on http://stendhalgame.org/world/atlas.html?me=0_semos_city.30.7
[20:16] <kistedhal> :o( sorry, but I cannot really participate properly... text is running through too fast - I am around 20:09 now )o:
[20:16] <redpawn> maybe there should be an item representing a map
[20:17] <superkym> zynn iwuhos has maps in his library of the route to ados
[20:17] <redpawn> so you can take it everywhere
[20:17] <redpawn> you can't take monogenes with you :)
[20:17] <hendrik> I am going to add the website link as Atlas command to the menu.
[20:17] <storyteller> I had already the idea of a folder where you collect maps, pictures etc
[20:17] <redpawn> yeah, that aould be great
[20:18] <redpawn> *would
[20:18] <kosch> for quest -></nowiki> more pictures (like the monogenes one). little infotabs to carry around with you. or just get a fresher look to the Travel Log (with maps and npc pictures e.g.)
[20:18] <paulthompson> hendrik that map is really useful
[20:18] <fhunter> travel log with pictures
[20:18] <kosch> yeah
[20:18] <storyteller> yes, good idea :)
[20:18] <kosch> and if npc is inside also a picture of house
[20:18] <storyteller> maybe a picture of the NPC who gave you the quest
[20:18] <storyteller> yes
[20:19] <Bluelads4> what about quest cards?
[20:19] <Bluelads4> you have the travellog like now
[20:19] <storyteller> so it may be easier to remember where anything was
[20:19] <Bluelads4> and can click on the quest and open a card with more information
[20:19] <hendrik> I think we should try to guide the low level players more (without fully restricting the world. So a wall around semos will have exits).
[20:19] <paulthompson> on that map you linked us is there a way to put the names of the towns buildings and areas
[20:19] <fhunter> some achievement help too
[20:19] <hendrik> paulthompson, that's on the wishlist.
[20:19] <sakishrist> paulthompson, that would be nice!
[20:20] <storyteller> howdo you mean the cards, Bluelads4?
[20:20] <superkym> hendrik, is help needed with this map completion?
[20:20] <paulthompson> indeed and thks
[20:20] <Bluelads4> like a new window opens with the npc pic, a small map of where he is, queststeps like now what you did so far
[20:20] <clarasoft> maybe seeing mobs (and npcs) on the minimap would prevent new players for running in crowds of mobs and dying?
[20:20] <kosch> and the starting house should be like the vault. so everyone got his personal house from the beginning called: my house :)
[20:20] <storyteller> ah, yes thats nice, Blue :)
[20:21] <latifundio> true clarasoft
[20:21] <superkym> clarasoft, that would be possible, but would it ruin the rpg feel of the game?
[20:21] <hendrik> kosch, that may actually be a good idea.
[20:21] <redpawn> showing where the creatures are? spoilery
[20:21] <latifundio> nope
[20:21] <eductio> hi all
[20:21] <paulthompson> yes i like the idea of seeing where creatures are so you dont get into trouble with a ambush also you aint wondering around empty areas
[20:21] <hendrik> We could script the first dialog with hayunn.
[20:21] <hendrik> and use that to teach about the world.
[20:21] <latifundio> i said camera stays behind then ur in the jaw of orks...
[20:21] <superkym> you can see creatures on the screen at around the same time they see you. so that you can run away in time.
[20:22] <redpawn> seeing the creatures ruins the sense of the game, i think
[20:22] <clarasoft> well, eg WOW has a feture where hunters can get a spell to see mobs on the map
[20:22] <superkym> hendrik, what do you mean, script the dialog
[20:22] <tornado> ok guys i really got to go, see you later, sorry ...
[20:22] <sakishrist> May I say that I do not think dying in it's self discourages people. it is the combination of this and other factors.
[20:22] <superkym> it's scripted already, isn't it? he tries to teach
[20:22] <eductio> leon du woscht
[20:22] <hendrik> i mean, the player could walk into the guard house and starts to talk to the npc.
[20:23] <hendrik> perhaps with a voice over explaiing that semos is in need for heros because the soldiers are fighting a battle far away.
[20:23] <storyteller> mabye a real prolog
[20:23] <hendrik> So the first thing a player activly does is killing a rat. not talking to an npcs.
[20:23] <redpawn> :)
[20:24] <kosch> the first rat should talk :)
[20:24] <storyteller> :D
[20:24] <Bluelads4> :D
[20:24] <hendrik> eaak.
[20:24] <zebercet> what about the sign minimap? it can be very usefull
[20:24] <storyteller> maybe the player starts somewhere, where he has to kill some rats before and then has to go to hayunn?
[20:24] <paulthompson> why isnt there any magic on here
[20:25] <hendrik> storyteller, yes, but before that, we have an introduction.
[20:25] <latifundio> i though both sides were evil (imperial vs bloroughs)
[20:25] <storyteller> yes, exactly, hedrik
[20:25] <kiheru> paulthompson: because it's not ready
[20:25] <paulthompson> ok cause pvp on here is usless
[20:25] <hendrik> okay, that is a complex thing, perhaps we should get back to topics that are easier to implement.
[20:25] <storyteller> a short introduction with the story and then a briefing that you shall talk to hayunn
[20:25] <hendrik> some time ago we spoke about the quest log.
[20:25] <superkym> i'd offered to do a voiceover tutorial introduction, but i can't be a man ;)
[20:25] <storyteller> but on the way to him you have to kill some rats already
[20:26] <paulthompson> players can log out in battle and enter pz zoens they shouldnt be abotu to log forl ike 10 minutes or enter pz zone for like 10 minutes also if there is pvp and teles there has to be a tele block spell
[20:26] <Bluelads4> comming back to signs... maybe some which you find in forests sometimes too in real life or at several places with information about the area and descriptions of ways and stuff
[20:26] <storyteller> thats a really, really good idea
[20:26] <clarasoft> what about PKs? they can be very annoying !!! maybe they should be "free for all" without penalty?
[20:26] <storyteller> Blue
[20:26] <latifundio> yea thas good to know elves are sure death
[20:27] <fhunter> maybe starting area like some canyon, tutorial quests in it, then teleport to semos
[20:27] <hendrik> player killing does not seems to be an issues in the level area of 1 to 10.
[20:27] <storyteller> No, no Pking and FFA in Stendhal!
[20:27] <hendrik> Are there many quests in Semos that are not suiteable for low level players?
[20:27] <redpawn> that's not right hendrik
[20:27] <storyteller> I like Bluelads4s idea with the direction signs
[20:27] <paulthompson> to a extince it is a lvl 1 to 10 issue cause while i train noob players like imcool come and attack me and my friends just to annoy us i should be able to kill him without him logging out or teleing
[20:27] <Bluelads4> they seem to be fine
[20:28] <hendrik> because they are to difficult to understand, require to far walking or are too dangerous?
[20:28] <redpawn> i mean PK not being an issue for low levels
[20:28] <Bluelads4> there are some like the tad one which have some dialogues whcih aren't clear, that's true
[20:28] <fhunter> ther should be linear introduction, to make thing easier to understand
[20:28] <Bluelads4> and the xp amount sometimes isn't that nicely related to the xp you have to gain
[20:28] Bluelads4 started a new charakter some days ago :P * <nowiki>[20:28] <hendrik> paulthompson the people you annoyed are not new players although they create new characters.
[20:28] <kosch> maybe integrate a trailer route of some stupid enemys following a road with a trail. so PK-players can attack them.
[20:29] <paulthompson> ok
[20:29] <latifundio> i think exp is fine for new player but stats raising is other story
[20:29] <redpawn> could you all stick to ONE subject?
[20:29] <paulthompson> skills are easy to raise you just have to train just giving exp and skill points out would ruin a game
[20:30] <paulthompson> these new players just have to know about there options as you all have been saying
[20:30] <latifundio> "they should" far from reallity
[20:30] <hendrik> I am more concerned about new players being put of by campers and high level weapons.
[20:30] <paulthompson> i just have 25 yrs of gaming experience undewr my belt so it wasnt hard for me to start not everyone has that much time in lol
[20:31] <Bluelads4> :P
[20:31] <storyteller> hehe
[20:31] <kosch> the problem is not the camper with the high level weapon - its that these players are missing some pirate action i think
[20:31] <superkym> pirate action?
[20:31] <latifundio> private?
[20:32] <Bluelads4> like fighting for weapons?
[20:32] <kosch> they want to kill some "not so stupid" bots on a way to somewhere
[20:32] <redpawn> they are simply bored
[20:32] <hendrik> I mean that low level players are envy of high weapons.
[20:32] <kosch> so interception
[20:32] <hendrik> but getting strong equipment is bad for balanced stats.
[20:32] <latifundio> much weapons are useles u learn that fast
[20:32] <hendrik> early*
[20:33] <superkym> I thought we are talking about players level 1-10
[20:33] <hendrik> It may be a good idea to add min-level to most of the equipment.
[20:33] <Bluelads4> I wouldn't say that some are useless... players just think often, that weapons with better stats is the goal to reach directly
[20:33] <superkym> how do they even know, what other players have or their stats
[20:33] <latifundio> like those flail i always found on publick chest :)
[20:33] <paulthompson> as a new player coming up i was wondering what in the world was gonig on with these daily tasks i was needing to kill glow monsters for morning stars and go thru fado great cave all at lvl 20 also gave me dreamscape or whatever tasks before i was even lvl 30 it was impossible
[20:33] <hendrik> So low level players will stop bagging for high weapons.
[20:33] <superkym> have they even found the website yet? if yes, then a lot of the problems we discussed here, aren't true ..
[20:33] <redpawn> agreed, hendrik
[20:33] <soniccuz> Wasn't the level requirements imposed to prevent low level players from using those weapons?
[20:34] <hendrik> only a very small number of weapons have min-level defined.
[20:34] <redpawn> yes, but it is not implemented for all weapons yet
[20:34] <superkym> soniccuz, there's no prevention, they are just less effective if you aren't experienced enough to know how to use them
[20:35] <hendrik> what parts of the website do you mean?
[20:35] <superkym> paulthompson, the daily tasks thing is noted. i think that since the rp got rebalanced, we haven't really rebalanced the daily task
[20:35] <kosch> website should depend on the game not game on the website
[20:35] <superkym> hendrik: that tells you what stats and weapons other players have
[20:35] <latifundio> i think the tutorial should show the use of the basic weapon
[20:35] <latifundio> including bows
[20:35] <superkym> kosch - that wasn't my point.
[20:35] <soniccuz> Still some people will shy away from looking for the weapon if it has a requirement they haven't reached yet.
[20:35] <redpawn> true
[20:36] <paulthompson> its nuts superkym i was lvl 20 getting deramscape tasks and i couldnt even go there till lvl 30 also killing glow monsters and eldersheepmen at lvl 20 or so for a morning star yes very unbalanced lol
[20:36] <Bluelads4> what about giving the blacksmith in semos some information about weapons?
[20:36] <hendrik> paulthompson, please stick to the topic, level 20 is way above level 10.
[20:36] <Bluelads4> and advertising some weapons which are now named as "useless" a bit more
[20:36] <latifundio> yea blue thats good
[20:37] <paulthompson> i wont lol i had night dagger and mainio shield also shadow armor in the bank grinding for those lvls i used them for motivation to get to lvl 40 then get to lvl 50 lol
[20:37] <latifundio> and seeing them on action better
[20:37] <tilger> hi
[20:37] <paulthompson> im saying they are giving to hard of tasks is all to lower players
[20:37] <tilger> friends
[20:37] <latifundio> hi
[20:37] <storyteller> :D
[20:37] <hendrik> I think min level are better.
[20:37] <superkym> bluelads4, he was originally here in the townhall when we needed people to know the rp changes
[20:38] <hendrik> we have them in the description, so player will understand those very easily.
[20:38] <latifundio> nice
[20:38] <redpawn> honestly..who reads the instructions? :)
[20:38] <latifundio> maybe some npc sparing
[20:38] <latifundio> one with grat sword another with dagger
[20:38] <latifundio> great*
[20:38] <Bluelads4> well but if players don't read... how should they ever understand things about the game :)
[20:39] <redpawn> they ask us :)
[20:39] <storyteller> true
[20:39] <hendrik> Can we add the suggested levels to the quest log?
[20:39] <Bluelads4> recording everything and implementing tons of soundfiles is a bit heavy :D
[20:39] <storyteller> :D
[20:39] <storyteller> maybe every weapon has a little tutorial sign when you pick it up the first time
[20:39] <superkym> i don't mind making voiceovers, bluelads4. i dont' need to prepare a lot.
[20:40] <Bluelads4> :)
[20:40] <sakishrist> It will be heavy on the game, imagine all that being downloaded/
[20:40] <redpawn> speech is too much for this game
[20:40] <superkym> hendrik, what do you mean? we can add the suggested level for a quest, to the quest log, but the quest log doesn't show the quest till it is started, remember.
[20:40] <Bluelads4> then players have to read :D
[20:41] <latifundio> yup
[20:41] <superkym> but they don't read
[20:41] <Bluelads4> hehe
[20:41] <storyteller> then they have to watch
[20:41] <storyteller> pictures
[20:41] <fhunter> quest for quest log
[20:41] <redpawn> i like the short video tutorials on the website/wiki
[20:41] <superkym> i have sat with some very smart people and they dont' read what's written there when they start the game
[20:41] <paulthompson> i dont read anything on here i just go for it lol
[20:41] <redpawn> on how to trade and stuff
[20:41] <latifundio> trial and error(dien a lot)
[20:41] <kiheru> few read even what npcs say during conversation
[20:41] <redpawn> right
[20:42] <sakishrist> true
[20:42] <fhunter> quest for getting a quest log, as there is a quest for keyring
[20:42] <latifundio> tre (me :P)
[20:42] <sakishrist> me being among them some times
[20:42] <hendrik> we don't aim for full speach. But only for the tutorial and perhaps a short introduction.
[20:42] <sakishrist> that would be good I think
[20:42] <Bluelads4> but how should it be advertised then... when players don't read + some have their sound turned off
[20:42] <storyteller> hendrik, i like that idea
[20:43] <redpawn> good question :)
[20:43] <latifundio> hendrick not just lvl for quest also recomended stats too
[20:43] <superkym> well, that's the one that was proposed last time ;)
[20:43] <hendrik> The tutorial messages are easier noticed than npcs talking.
[20:44] <paulthompson> as a newer player you are broke ofc and there isnt much room to hold anything on this game you find yourself having to leave alot of items behind
[20:44] <latifundio> yea more bank space yes!
[20:44] <redpawn> true
[20:44] <paulthompson> not really bank space
[20:44] <hendrik> Do new players get that many items?
[20:44] <latifundio> lol ok
[20:44] <paulthompson> there is alt characters for that
[20:44] <redpawn> like 5 wooden clubs :)
[20:45] <paulthompson> i mean extra or larger bags
[20:45] <redpawn> because they do not know where to sell it
[20:45] <sakishrist> I think many items is not a problem
[20:45] <sakishrist> I didn't have it
[20:45] <paulthompson> 5 clubs sold at the gnome spot to a noob isnt bad money
[20:45] <hendrik> there are 12 slots in bag, I think that is plenty for new players.
[20:45] <latifundio> 12?
[20:45] <redpawn> yes
[20:45] <sakishrist> I could not get into the gnome village until level 10
[20:46] <hendrik> i guess they mostly have money, cheese and meat, perhaps a flask.
[20:46] <paulthompson> yes ppl need to know about the taxpayer in ados mayors house all the books that tell you where you can sell your goods at
[20:46] <hendrik> Anything else?
[20:46] <redpawn> if you are new..and don't know what this is all about..you collect everything you find
[20:46] <redpawn> because you don't know if it's worthy
[20:46] <latifundio> how about the walking bug
[20:46] <hendrik> but what do you find near semos?
[20:46] <latifundio> thats deadly
[20:46] <storyteller> Redqueen: Harold should be more obvious so players know where to sell something
[20:46] <redpawn> the what?
[20:46] <paulthompson> ye that walking bug is annoying and can easdily get you killed lol
[20:46] <superkym> latifundio, have you reported this bug? if not can you explain it?
[20:46] <redpawn> exactly, story
[20:47] <redpawn> i have to explain level 200 players how to use him :)
[20:47] <latifundio> well if u keep pressed the arrow key
[20:47] <latifundio> and u disconnect the char keeps walking to the unkown
[20:47] <zebercet> i must logout, see you guys, aeo
[20:47] <latifundio> unknown = dead
[20:47] <paulthompson> bye buddy
[20:47] <latifundio> i died a lot like that
[20:47] <redpawn> it's not a bug..it's afeature :)
[20:48] <latifundio> bad feature
[20:48] <superkym> redpawn. not on disconnect.
[20:48] <redpawn> okay okay
[20:48] <redpawn> never did that :)
[20:48] <paulthompson> yes i lagged one time safely i thought ended up i was killed by a red skeleton that was no where near me and also my body wasnt even there 7 minutes later it was all screwy
[20:48] <hendrik> that's something for a bug report.
[20:48] <superkym> latifundio, after the meeting, please report that bug. http://stendhalgame.org/wiki/SubmitBug
[20:48] <hikaru> I would still like to address grief player tactics problem of high level players vs low level players, like kill stealing and loot stealing, that is one of the main frustation points for low level players I think
[20:48] <superkym> if you forget the link you can always ask /support
[20:48] <latifundio> i lost so much exp like that :(
[20:48] <latifundio> cellular modem here :'(
[20:49] <redpawn> i don't get the bug
[20:49] <redpawn> how can you walk when you are logged off??
[20:49] <Bluelads4> that'S the bug
[20:49] <Bluelads4> :D
[20:49] <latifundio> just walk and click out side of window and u will see
[20:49] <latifundio> ur char will keep walkin
[20:49] <sakishrist> Do so many players kill others? it never happened to me.
[20:49] <hendrik> hikaru, i think that is more an issue of players above level 10.
[20:49] <redpawn> yes, sure
[20:49] <redpawn> but that's not a bug
[20:49] <latifundio> even when u unprees the arrow key
[20:49] <redpawn> i use this often as a feature
[20:49] <latifundio> same happen when disconnected
[20:49] <paulthompson> i dont know if its possible to die from pvp if your smart
[20:49] <hikaru> not killing you, but killing th mob you are fighting
[20:49] <redpawn> what about logging off?
[20:50] <Bluelads4> no not really hendrik... my level 9 char has been attacked by two level 11 chars :D
[20:50] <clarasoft> so do I, autowalk :))
[20:50] <paulthompson> a player attacks you that is way higher just log out or tele
[20:50] <redpawn> ah..offtopic :)
[20:50] <redpawn> i'll read the bug report
[20:50] <hendrik> Players below level 10 are not killed by players often.
[20:50] <sakishrist> I see
[20:50] <hikaru> that is a general problem which also includes level 1 -10 (those are always the low level victims)
[20:50] <latifundio> lol hendriks
[20:50] <paulthompson> lol
[20:51] <redpawn> checking the bug?
[20:51] <latifundio> u gonna smash the wall!'
[20:51] <hendrik> I checked that logs, this problem is not relevant.
[20:51] <hikaru> I am not talking about pk
[20:51] <sakishrist> :D
[20:51] <hikaru> I am talking about kill stealing, that is different
[20:51] <sakishrist> sorry, what is pk?
[20:51] <redpawn> kill stealing is not nice
[20:51] <Oslsachem> they kill your preys
[20:52] <soniccuz> player killer
[20:52] <redpawn> but i see no way to prevent this
[20:52] <hendrik> the person who gets hurts most has 15 seconds to loot.
[20:52] <sakishrist> ok, thanks
[20:52] <hendrik> and in most cases that is the low level player.
[20:52] <hikaru> but that is already a probnlem
[20:52] <sakishrist> maybe "hurts most" could be divided by the level and you get a more fair result
[20:53] <paulthompson> the worst thing i have had happen to me as a lower lvl player so far is tilger lure huge mobs to me to try and kill me
[20:53] <hikaru> the high levle will often hurt most, because hi kills the mob instantly, and the low level, who fought for some time already gets nothing
[20:53] <latifundio> lol mean tilger
[20:53] <hendrik> if he kills the mob instantly, he is not hurt at all.
[20:53] <paulthompson> i was running golden dragons and stuff and he was luring mobs to me
[20:53] <superkym> hendrik, can you test that thing later?
[20:54] <paulthompson> lol
[20:54] <Bluelads4> :D
[20:54] superkym tells you: please stop the running. * <nowiki>[20:54] <hendrik> you are not supposed to be anywere near golden dragons below level 10.
[20:54] <paulthompson> i am finding it humoris
[20:54] <paulthompson> well i aint the one to care as long as i have fun adventuring
[20:54] <hikaru> if you bow hunting and don't get hurt at all, you will never get anthing, if someone walks by and kill steal?
[20:54] <superkym> I guess we have little time left now for the meeting, it is due to finish in 5 minutes.
[20:54] <latifundio> yep fun deadly adventures
[20:54] <paulthompson> exactly
[20:55] hendrik nods: We should use the last 5 minutes to recap. * <nowiki>[20:55] <redpawn> what good ideas do we have so far?
[20:55] <paulthompson> take a crap load of arrows with loads of pots to amazons and get hunter bow and lvl 10 or not some dragons lol
[20:55] krupi is in 6_kikareukin_islands at (81,110) * <nowiki>[20:55] <redpawn> psst
[20:55] <latifundio> fix walk bug
[20:56] <latifundio> semos wall, fence or watever
[20:56] <paulthompson> fix tasks where you aint lvl 10 or 20 and needing to fight lvl 100s and lvl 200s mobs to get to your objective
[20:56] <hendrik> Guide players better, for example by adding a wall around semos. And NPCs telling about the risk of following certain path trhough it.
[20:56] <latifundio> mora npc that warns about near dangers
[20:56] <hendrik> Integrating the atlas will help.
[20:56] <superkym> and npcs (or something else) suggesting good locations to hunt
[20:56] <redpawn> what about keeping dangerous creatures from the paths?
[20:57] <hendrik> Does anyone want to help with the NPCs?
[20:57] <kosch> player "vault" house in semos
[20:57] <latifundio> bigger bags
[20:57] <redpawn> like hunters on the way to ados?
[20:57] <latifundio> plz
[20:57] <Bluelads4> I can if I have time
[20:57] <superkym> signs that warn about danger could look more like a danger sign not a normal sign so you know to read it
[20:57] <sakishrist> from the path to ados yes!
[20:57] <superkym> creatures somehow being kept off paths (i.e. not even dragged there?)
[20:57] <storyteller> why so? Thats the risk of travelling
[20:57] <paulthompson> bigger bags i think is a must also
[20:57] <superkym> story, that was one of the ideas that a lot of people agreed with
[20:57] <latifundio> npc that gives hints to raise lvl and stats
[20:57] <storyteller> there are alreadysafe paths
[20:58] <redpawn> the path is so nice green..you do not think of it :)
[20:58] <superkym> instead of bigger bags there was another suggestion: more teaching about what is worth keeping and how to sell
[20:58] <redpawn> good idea, kym
[20:58] <paulthompson> yes that would help also superkym
[20:58] <Oslsachem> I would suggest spawning a friendly warning gnome each time a player enters a dangerous zone
[20:58] <hendrik> As far as I can tell, most new players did not fill their bag before they quit.
[20:58] <Bluelads4> editing the travel log a bit with maybe some more information like npc pics
[20:58] <paulthompson> i was lost on that low lvled
[20:58] <superkym> yes, i don't think that's a reason people would not play the game, hendrik, i agree.
[20:59] <soniccuz> I think it's fine if they can be dragged there. (I don't know how you'd even fix that without removing the creatyures from the area)
[20:59] <kosch> flying carpet or mountain railway shortcut semos mountain>->ados
[20:59] <dinotopia> i would agree with larger bags.. or extra bags
[20:59] <latifundio> gnomes arent friendly!
[20:59] <kosch> but you must have to earn bigger bags in a quest
[20:59] <soniccuz> just make sure spawns aren't near paths?
[20:59] <Oslsachem> this one is... he was raised by humans....
[20:59] <hendrik> Add minlevel to most equipment.
[21:00] <fhunter> humans are not friendly;)
[21:00] <hendrik> That will make people angry on the next release, but I think it is impotant.
[21:00] <superkym> It's now 21:00 server time.
[21:00] <redpawn> maybe..add a sign/tutorial entry that you may ask players for help? :)
[21:00] <latifundio> what about gore (exesiva blood and scary corpses)?
[21:00] <Oslsachem> about railways or flying carpets, it seems it is not technically possible by now as we walk already at max speed
[21:00] <superkym> oh yes, i did like the idea of a helper badge, that was on a forum posting
[21:01] <superkym> to indicate who you can ask for help
[21:01] <kosch> like the athor ferry?
[21:01] <Oslsachem> it should be a teleporting device like a portal
[21:01] <paulthompson> graphics and more content like more areas and quests always help there is never enough of that
[21:01] <superkym> oslsachem, we have scrolls, anyway.
[21:01] <redpawn> yes, good idea, kym
[21:01] <paulthompson> but that isnt this topic
[21:01] <Bluelads4> but teleporting around would take players fun because they would just teleport then (and not visit the area on themselves first)
[21:01] <redpawn> it's not always good to ask anyone :)
[21:01] <hendrik> okay, thank you all for your input.
[21:02] <Oslsachem> perhaps limit access to players that have already visited the area on foot
[21:02] <superkym> i think we did a good recap in the last 5 minutes
[21:02] <soniccuz> It's not always bad either. :b
[21:02] <paulthompson> yw and i am new and enjoying your game thks
[21:02] <superkym> oslsachem, that is already the case.
[21:02] <hendrik> If you like to help with something, please join us in Chat. There is a link in the contribute section of the website.
[21:02] <redpawn> that was an exhausting meeting :)
[21:03] <hendrik> If you have other ideas or bugs, please post them to the tracker.

Stendhal Development Meeting 2011-08-09/Chatlog

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