Stendhal Developers Meeting 2011-10-19

From Arianne
Jump to: navigation, search


Update on current development activity, and where feedback or input is required from other developers or contributors
High level overview of open patches


adding new life to the Ados region with the maps
trying to avoid outside maps incase others are working on them, will continue to use irc to communicate with the other map workers rather than use wiki page
zone colouring - needs feedback for how this should be defined when creating a map. client changes on the fly possible but may break backwards compatibility
Now implemented
containers - client side support in place, server side equip code can't handle nested entities. should server side equip be hacked for this or refactored?
zone danger levels - suggested levels need sense checking from contributors. kiheru needs feedback on client side display
Now implemented
magic - server side foundation in place, but many other topics to discuss (in another meeting). some have already been discussed but not documented.
mana regeneration
how to learn spells
client integration (how to cast spells, how to view available spells)
spell images
item damaging - basic mechanism in place, balancing needed and details missing.
quest suggestion system - is NPC idea okay? kymara will do npc-actions and then anyone could do the npc design
sjtsp (absent)
capture the flag - game control missing
player houses in atlas - requires more familiarity with code

Open Patches

kosch's music
Bluelads4 can assign the music to zones and commit
issue of where to store the sources is open. perhaps a separate project to reduce cvs checkout time?
music contribution documentation on sources and license requirement is out of date/incomplete?
bleu's maps
kymara should look at the one(s) she requested
Bluelads4 happy to review the rest
bleu's outfits
kiheru to review and check wiki pages on adding new outfits (or he can just ask kymara)
Now added
snakevip fire whip quest idea
are the item stats ok? (i.e. doesn't become best weapon in game etc) - please comment on #3368540
is the quest difficulty balanced with the effectiveness of the item? - please comment on #3368540

Chat log

20:00 -!- kymara changed the topic of #arianne to: Developers meeting in progress - see 

20:00 -!- mode/#arianne [-o kymara] by kymara
20:01 < kymara> Hi all, I thought we could meet to catch up on what each other is working on currently and if any input, feedback or testing is needed.
20:01 < kymara> I'd list to invite each developer is working on something to report: What is active? What is blocking me?
20:01 < madmetzger> hi
20:02 < kymara> I would like to avoid starting a discussion on new ideas or new feature requests. This is about stuff already started.
20:03 -!- monsterdhal [~monsterdh@unaffiliated/monsterdhal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:03 -!- monsterdhal [~monsterdh@unaffiliated/monsterdhal] has joined #arianne
20:03 < Bluelads4> hello :)
20:03 < kymara> I hope that sounds okay, and of course I'm not against new ideas, I'm just very pro- not wasting work and getting good stuff finished 
20:04 < Bluelads4> that sounds like a good plan :)
20:04 < monsterdhal> yay
20:04 < kymara> I listed some developers on the forum entry in the agenda but before we start can I just check if there's anyone else here who would 
                like to report on activity/ask for input on work
20:06 < kymara> okay seems not :)
20:06 < Bluelads4> :)
20:06 < monsterdhal> one thing I wanted to do....
20:06 < monsterdhal> but nothing in progress
20:06 < kymara> ok, we'll see how much time we have then?
20:06 < kymara> i'm hoping to keep this to an hour.
20:06 < monsterdhal> okay
20:06 < kymara> bluelads4 please could you start us off?
20:07 < Bluelads4> sure :)
20:07 < Bluelads4> I currently work on some maps around Ados
20:07 < Bluelads4> means city maps and interiors like adding new decorations
20:07 < Bluelads4> making everything a bit more lifeful
20:08 < Bluelads4> started to go through the list like starting with A and running down to z :D the last commits included the library, ados wall etc. 
20:08 < Bluelads4> I'm not sure if anyone works on other outside maps at the moment so I wanted to step away from these for the moment
20:09 < Bluelads4> and that is what I currently work on :) hadn't any time recently for starting bigger stuff like the quests I had in mind
20:09 -!- cloverleaf [~cloverlea@unaffiliated/cloverleaf] has joined #arianne
20:09 < kymara> that sounds good thank you. would anything help with the organisation/not clashing? maybe using the wiki refactoring page for atlas?
20:09 < kymara> or is it just enough to communicate with teh other known mapmakers?
20:10 < Bluelads4> I think it would be enough to communicate with the other known mapmakers, the atlas page in the wiki is quite out of date I think, 
                   reworked it a bit some days ago but it's still not totally updated
20:10 < Bluelads4> so catching mapworkers here "in real" might be better :)
20:10 < kymara> okay
20:11 < kymara> sounds good thank you
20:11 < kymara> who next? kiheru?
20:11 < Bluelads4> I think the maps which could be in progress by others are around mountain maps mostly so far as I understood :)
20:11 < kymara> feel free just to pin down bleu ;)
20:11 < Bluelads4> hehe yes :)
20:12 < kiheru> ok
20:13 < kiheru> zone colouring is mainly waiting for me to know how people who work with maps want to specify it
20:13 < kymara> can you explain what zone colouring means?
20:14 < kiheru> mostly it would be used for lighting (night, sunrise etc)
20:14 < kiheru> so the server needs to be told about which maps need to be coloured according to the hour
20:14 < kymara> isn't it as simple as every level 0 map?
20:15 < kiheru> or any specific cases, like the twilight zone
20:15 < kiheru> kika islands would be an exception to that, at least. perhaps the magic city too
20:16 < kymara> then i'd vote xml, but i guess you don't want a full on dicussion about this now: we just need a way for you to get the input :)
20:16 < kymara> could you please make a forum, tracker entry or wiki page for this issue and invite feedback
20:16 < kymara> then bug bluelads4, me, bleutailfly, and anyone else to respond there
20:16 < kymara> we didn't respond when you asked here, sorry.
20:17 < kiheru> currently the client can change colouring at zone changes; I think I can make the client change in on the fly without huge problems 
                (famous last words), but not quite sure how to do that without breaking backward compatibility
20:18 < hendrik> in what way?
20:18 < kiheru> as in, that an older client could tell it apart from a zone change
20:20 < hendrik> I am hoping that this isn't a problem.
20:21 < kiheru> one possibility would keep the raw layer info in case the colouring changes, but those events would not be very common so that would 
                be usually wasted memory
20:22 < hendrik> if it just cause a bit of lag for an old client, i think that is okay.
20:22 -!- martinf [~martin_@reactos/developer/MartinF] has joined #arianne
20:23 < kymara> kiheru, is there anything else that's currently open for you? especially if it's held back through needing input or feedback
20:23 < kiheru> I'm not so much worried about lag; a newer client would only need the layers, not the entities. so the obvious thing would be sending 
                just layers, but a client that considers it an actual zone change would end up with no client side entities
20:24 < hendrik> ooops, yes, that is an issue.
20:25 < hendrik> so we need a way on the server to surpress the content transfer for old clients.
20:25 < kiheru> another project in progress are the containers. I think client side support is mostly in place, but the server side equip code can't 
                handle nested entities (I committed a change to equip earlier, but that broke some checks)
20:26 < hendrik> i think i reverted it as an emergency reaction but later added those checks.
20:27 < hendrik> not sure, my memory might play tricks on me.
20:27 < kiheru> client probably is missing stuff for use actions etc for nested items, but those are easy to add as client side entities can tell 
                their paths now. server is missing support, I think
20:28 < kiheru> most likely server side of interpreting item paths should also be capable of doing any appropriate checks, as well
20:29 < kiheru> it may also be that I added some checks to equip, but in any case it would not be particularly well tested code. equip & friends is 
                quite hairy
20:30  * hendrik nods.
20:30 < kymara> kiheru, what do you need for getting server side equip code in place? is it something you plan to do or do you need help?
20:34 < kiheru> it's not something I'd know well. how much I need depends on whether it can be hacked on top of current code, or wheher it should be 
                done with a better designed equip. a complete redesign takes some time, but would help in the long run 
20:35 < kiheru> a third thing, that came up just today, are the zone danger levels
20:36 < kiheru> one possible way of calculating them would produce these levels:
20:36 < kiheru> (I can upload the spreadsheet somewhere too, if wanted)
20:37 < kiheru> anyway, it's about the max level of a creature on a map, + a bit more depending how densely populated the zone is with creatures 
                around that level
20:37 < kymara> what about something like google docs so it is easy for people to edit it collaboratively, or the wiki, which is less easy to edit a 
                spreadheet on but still that word
20:38 < kiheru> I have never used that; can it import other spreadsheets?
20:39 < kymara> yeah
20:39 < kiheru> in any case, I think the server can pass the danger level to the client as an attribute in the data layer
20:39 < kiheru> danger_level=42
20:39 < hendrik>  /me nods.
20:40 < kiheru> so then the client needs a nice way of communicating that to the user
20:41 < kymara> you put some options up today
20:41 < kiheru> the client knows the users' level, so it can show some graphic of the relative danger to the user herself
20:42 < kymara> i'd carry on with using irc to communicate your options for that as you were getting feedback today but again it might be an idea to 
                have a tracker entry for it for something more permanent
20:43 < kiheru> mockups of the suggestions:  and
20:43 < kiheru> I'll make an entry about that too
20:43 < kymara> okay, cool, if people have responses to those entries maybe they could put it there, so that for now we can move on to the next dev?
20:43 < kiheru> I guess that's all I have atm
20:43 < hendrik> just an idea: what about displaying the zone name in green, yellow, red?
20:44 < kiheru> not good for the colour blind
20:44 < hendrik> that is less attention catching and still obvious enough.
20:45 < hendrik> we could add a letter or word behind the zonename.
20:45 < hendrik> perhaps only if a setting is set.
20:45 < hendrik> that would allow us to use both red again for the shop signs unless it is set.
20:47 < kymara> Could we save the details for later?
20:47 < kymara> We still did not hear from quite a few people, but kiheru at least you know now there id interest.
20:47 < kymara> mad?
20:47 < madmetzger> yes
20:48 < madmetzger> okay, I have two things pending
20:48 < madmetzger> first one is the older one regarding the magic system.
20:49 < madmetzger> there hasn't been much changes recently, just some smaller tweaks.
20:49 < madmetzger> I think the server side foundation is basically there, except that I need to add more effects
20:50 < kymara> effects?
20:50 < madmetzger> still open is the topic mana regeneration, there were several thoughts about it
20:50 < madmetzger> effects in the sense of "heal an entity" or "damage an entity"
20:50 < kymara> ok
20:51 < madmetzger> mana regeneration isn't yet implemented, but I think it shouldn't be too difficult.
20:51 < madmetzger> one part would be to slowly regenerate mana when not in a fight
20:52 < madmetzger> the second one would be potions, I think those should be very similar to our healing potions, but just in another colour (I'd 
                    suggest maybe blue)
20:53 < madmetzger> learning spells is also open, I recently thought about adopting the wizards in laguz' wizards tower and adding a quest for each 
20:53 < kymara> we'd dicussed having one tower per nature, before
20:53 < kiheru> I think that was the purpose of those wizards
20:53 < kymara> but laguz's went a little against that and was a mix
20:53 < madmetzger> yes, we discussed that.
20:54 < madmetzger> that idea just came to my mind, as we have it now there as it is
20:54 < kymara> mad, what is the next step to move it on, can for example someone like monsterdhal be of help yet?
20:54 < madmetzger> help would be nice for maybe quest design to enable spells for a player
20:54 < madmetzger> and for doing the mana potions images maybe
20:55 < kymara> okay, we should look up the past discussions on the towers too
20:55 < kymara> but before quests - can the spells be summoned and tried in game yet?
20:55 < madmetzger> lastly client integration is still open, I am not really sure what is the best way to cast a spell
20:55 < madmetzger> yes, they can
20:56 < madmetzger> there's a script to summon spells in the player's spells slot
20:56 < madmetzger> and a client side action to cast a spell
20:56 < kymara> it's a very big topic,a lot to discuss. and i think it's important, too. what about another meeting sometime to discuss the magic 
                concept, work done and work pending?
20:56 < madmetzger> that could be helpful
20:57 < madmetzger> when I prepared myself for tonight I wrote up all stuff what I did and what is open, so it was good to have a meeting again about 
                    this special topic
20:57 < kymara> do people have time for more meetings? i'd really like participants from anyone who would be able to help - for me, the balancing is a 
                big concern so we will need input from players too.
20:57 < madmetzger> yes, balancing is the most difficult thing then
20:57 < madmetzger> I think it would help to get a basic version work, that is easily to disable for a release
20:57 < kiheru> we had some discussion about the client side during the hannover meeting, and that seems to be a good basic design, I think
20:58 < kymara> kiheru: is it documented with the other magic stuff on the wiki?
20:58 < kiheru> I don't know
20:58 < kymara> madmetzger: a basic version that is able to be disabled is a great idea
20:58 < kymara> kiheru: i don't remember seeing the client design written down. could you please help with that if you remember it?
20:59 < madmetzger> yes, I remember that discussion. If I got it right, that was sth with clicking on spell to choose it and then clicking on the 
20:59 < kymara> i can look for any documentation on the quest ideas/learning magic and improve them
20:59 < kiheru> anyway, I'll try to be of help when it comes to the client side at least
20:59 < madmetzger> that would be really nice
20:59 < madmetzger> at least client server communication already works
21:00 < kiheru> madmetzger: that's about what I remember about the proposed UI too
21:00 < madmetzger> I think I will post my notes to the wiki page on magic and update it with current status quo
21:01 < madmetzger> yes, and I think that doesn't really fit to current way we do things atm
21:01 < kymara> madmetzger: sounds good thank you
21:01 < RedPawn> is placing spells on keyboard keys an option?
21:01 < madmetzger> difficult, as a spell needs a target
21:02 < RedPawn> i mean pressing a key to activate it and then click on the target
21:02 < RedPawn> just an idea..we could discuss it later :)
21:02 < madmetzger> yes, that could be an option, I had sth similar in my mind
21:02 < kiheru> there perhaps could be shortcut keys
21:03 < madmetzger> I think this part would need a few more thoughts again.
21:03 < kiheru> but I don't think it can be the only way to use them. we can't expect everyone to memorize keys
21:03 < RedPawn> i think this is just the point to think about shortcuts
21:03 < RedPawn> the menu on right click gets a bit long
21:04 < RedPawn> surely we would have to plan it
21:04 < Bluelads4> can't there be something like a button under one of the panel windows which shows spells when youclick on it?
21:04 < madmetzger> also client side view is open, some spell images would be helpful. I have one "basic" suggestion for healing spell commited, but 
                    it is not very nice :D
21:04 < hendrik> WoW assigns numbers from 1 to 0 to the spell slots, and those numbers are the keys.
21:05 < kymara> i was wondering about asking bleutailfly for some help with spell images
21:05 < hendrik> that is those things in a slot.
21:05 < RedPawn> i'd like to do that too
21:05 < kiheru> I think the available spells were planned to be in a grid a bit like the bag
21:05 < kymara> she'd need a spec for the basic image (e.g. scrolls are a basic scroll underneath)
21:05 < kymara> kiheru: yes i remember that too.
21:05 < kymara> RedPawn: okay, or you or both :)
21:05 < hendrik> or a 1x10 "bag" at the bottom of the screen.
21:05 < RedPawn> good idea hendrik
21:06 < RedPawn> like in torchlight :)
21:06 < madmetzger> yes, for that there's a suggestion in the client currently. but maybe not a good one
21:06 < madmetzger> I like hendrik's suggestion
21:07 < kiheru> the spell row should be outside the game screen, or we end up with a similar annoyance as we had with screen windows before
21:07 < madmetzger> yes, I think we should really meet at another date for discussing this.
21:08 < kymara> madmetzger: can you and i plan an agenda for the magic meeting and check the wiki docs are up to date before then? RedPawn: i'd love 
                to see a sample for what you think some spell images could look like
21:08 < madmetzger> sure, we can do that kymara.
21:08 < RedPawn> where is the basic image for that?
21:08 < madmetzger> thanks for offering help with planning
21:08 < kymara> i am not sure there is one, just that madmetzger made one as a sample
21:08 < kymara> it's probably rubbish as he's no artist
21:08 < RedPawn> :)
21:09 < madmetzger> yes, it is really rubbish :D
21:09 < RedPawn> just for a basic idea
21:09 < kymara> sorry you have to start from scratch :P something 32x32 looking like a spell
21:09 < monsterdhal> hihi
21:09 < RedPawn> alright
21:10 < madmetzger> the image is somewhere below data/sprites/spells
21:10 < kymara> okay, i'm conscious of time and we're doing well but lets move on
21:10 < RedPawn> okay, thanks
21:11 < madmetzger> the othere one was item damaging
21:11 < madmetzger> I mean where I was working on. but I can postpone that work for later maybe and focus more on magic?
21:12 < madmetzger> there's also some bits of work to do
21:13 < kymara> madmetzger: to me it seems like you might be close, in magic, to a stage where the remaining work can be split up between other people
21:13 < kymara> so it dfoes make sense to finish that, i think
21:13 < madmetzger> shortly: basic mechanism seems to work, balancing needed and some details missing. but balancing is a really difficult issue
21:14 < madmetzger> balancing: how fast breaking an item? how determine repair price? for both are suggestions there, that could be discussed at a 
                    later stage
21:15 < Bluelads4> (we did a bit already :D)
21:15 < madmetzger> yes ;)
21:15 < madmetzger> yes, so I suggest to meet up again after I updated the wiki and set up and agenda together with kymara
21:16 < madmetzger> item damaging can stay as it is for the moment, as it is of no harm to be there and easy to deactivate
21:16 < kymara> okay thank you madmetzger 
21:17 < kymara> I can report briefly, I wanted to implement a system to suggest what quest a player should do next and did some work on it 
21:17 < kymara> *what quests are suitable for a player of that level
21:18 < kymara> I had an idea for how this can be communicated and wrote it at 
21:19 < kymara> if using an NPC in the ways described sounds okay I would carry on with it, but if using the travel log in some way would be a lot 
                better, i will try to write out a similar piece for that instead
21:20 < Bluelads4> I like the idea :)
21:21 < kiheru> an npc sounds more reasonable to me. then the player does not need to be a psychic that mystically knows who might need help
21:21 < kymara> lol kiheru, putting it like that an npc sounds right!
21:21 < kymara> i thought since the infrastructure was there for travel log it might be the preferred option
21:22 < kiheru> maybe the travel log should contain what the player was told by the oracle
21:22 < kymara> interesting, could try incorporate that
21:23 < kymara> at leats i think it would not be very difficult to get some oracle chat-actions in place and then anyone else could actually design 
                the npc, how they look and walk and what their story is
21:23 < kymara> so i might look to others for help with that when we get to that stage :)
21:23  * Bluelads4 raises her hands :D
21:23 < kymara> yay!
21:23 < Bluelads4> :D
21:25 < kymara> right-o
21:25 < kymara> hendrik had nothing new pending
21:26 < kymara> yoriy isn't here, was working on pied piper though, we might have something to test
21:26 < hendrik> I try to help and support projects but I cannot do anything large at the moment. Work and studying is really going crazy:
21:26 < hendrik> Now mad and I are trying to finish a scientific paper till the beginnig of November.  (need to complete a draft tonight)
21:27 < hendrik> Then I have to prepare a full day seminar and two talks before 150 customers each.
21:27 < hendrik> And then there will be the next extremely important release at the end of December.
21:28 < hendrik> at work.
21:28 < kymara> that's okay hendrik. i think kiheru has some stuff to ask you about based on today but he will be doing the work :)
21:29 < kymara> I am not sure about the status of sjtsp's work on Capture the flag
21:29 -!- yoriy [~yoriy@] has joined #arianne
21:29 < kymara> it wasn't considered complete enough for the last release?
21:30 < Bluelads4> there are some open tasks around it I think, at least the wiki shows some
21:31 < hendrik> the complete game control is missing.
21:32 < kymara> hendrik: so that's more a missing feature than a bug?
21:33 < hendrik> yes
21:34 < kymara> would it help if there was a tracker entry for it or am i overpushing writing everything down?
21:34 < hendrik> there is a wiki page
21:35 < kymara> okay
21:35 < kymara> can anyone help with the open patches?
21:36 < kymara> kosch's music - I would guess Bluelads4 will be happy to add it to the right zones so long as the format is accepted?
21:36 < Bluelads4> yes yes yes :D
21:36 < Bluelads4> sorry :D that means yes :D 
21:36 < Bluelads4> his music is really nice
21:36 < Bluelads4> and fits too many zones where no music is added at all at the moment :)
21:37 < kymara> and he's providing sources? we just need to commit those to code but not include them in the client binaries, i think?
21:37 < madmetzger> okay,  can I add sth to this?
21:37 < kiheru> some of the samples may need to be checked how well they behave in looping
21:38 < kymara> madmetzger: yes
21:38 < kiheru> the sources probably need their own project. otherwise cvs checkout sizes become massive
21:38 < madmetzger> I have a recorded sound file with nice water sounds. that recording was done by a friend, and he licences it to us under creative 
21:39 < madmetzger> maybe blue could look if this water sound fits better to some locations than our current sound
21:39 < monsterdhal> are "sources" included?
21:39 < Bluelads4> sure I can
21:40 < madmetzger> it's the original recording as wav
21:40 < postman-bot> geomac rented a sign saying "News of the Day: jelfry (level 41) killed snoephuis (level 5) today. snoephuis said: "He said he 
                     wanted to train, I don't know I'm still learning this game". I say, watch out for me jelfry! "I am your executioner". Thank you."
21:41 < kymara> kiheru: okay, if the file sizes are so huge as to need a separate project we need to think about it. i don't want to discourage a 
                contributor by taking too long thats all
21:42 < kymara> Bluelads4: can you take responsibility for them getting on, and bug us to find a solution to the sources thingy?
21:43 < Bluelads4> you mean koschs sounds or madmetzgers or both? :)
21:43 < kymara> koschs
21:43 < kymara> mad can add his to the tracker
21:44 < Bluelads4> yes I think kosch gave some information about the sources but I can talk with him again... not sure if I can manage the stuff 
                   around an own project...
21:44 < madmetzger> okay, I will add it to the tracker
21:44 < Bluelads4> so I might need help with that
21:44 < kymara> yes, that is the 'bugging us' part
21:45 < Bluelads4> hehe :) ok
21:45 < kymara> but if you can 'take ownership' of making sure it happens it won't get forgotten
21:45 < kymara> okay next one is some maps by bleu, at least one of them i have requested and shoudl therefore look at
21:45 < kymara> Bluelads4: you are otherwise the map queen atm
21:45 < Bluelads4> hehe
21:46 < Bluelads4> it's a bit like playing "sims" :D
21:46 < Bluelads4> I always loved the house building part :D
21:46 < Bluelads4> (more than the actual playing with the sims :D)
21:46 < kymara> are you okay to keep dealing with those?
21:46 < Bluelads4> sure :9
21:46 < Bluelads4> :)
21:46 < kymara> okay, next up bleu's outfits
21:47 < hendrik> about the music, CC is nice, but I like to insist on GPL.
21:47 < hendrik> they authors can dual licence it if course.
21:47 < kymara> kiheru she definitely wanted you to look at those can you close/reject them as appropriate please?
21:48 < kymara> hendrik: there's nothing really written down on requirements and we don't have a framework in place for such huge source files as 
                kiheru notes
21:48 < kiheru> uff, I'm no map expert. dreamscape in particular is more your map than anyone else's
21:48 < kymara> maybe the wiki page on sound/music contribution needs an update, and we need to figure out the source-file-storage
21:48 < kymara> kiheru: yes, you're for outfits.
21:49 < kiheru> oh, ok. I missed a few lines
21:50 < kiheru> the outfits seem ok. I'll need to read the wiki pages about adding new outfits
21:50 < kymara> there was a new item + quest idea - from snakevip i think - which i missed 
21:50 < kymara> 5 dragon fire whip with task - ID: 3368540 
21:51 < kymara> does anyone fancy analysing item stats and quest hard-ness to check if it'd be balanced?
21:52 < kiheru> if someone likes to dable with items, there are images for fire & ice arrows (probably something else too). they also miss stats (and 
                creatures that drop them)
21:53 < kiheru> the code can handle arrow nature, it's not just used anywhere
21:54 < kymara> perhaps we can keep these in mind as open tasks for the next time someone asks for soemthing to do
21:55 < kiheru> looks like so. no one jumped to volunteer for them now
21:55 < kymara> Okay guys we've run over what I originally thought, but I think it's been really useful - i've found this very helpful anyway
21:56 < kymara> I'll put the log on the wiki
21:56 < monsterdhal> thank you for organising the meeting
21:57 < kymara> Thank you all for attending and contributing
21:57 < RedPawn> Concerning spells, how about that?
21:57 < geomac> very informative kymara, thanks.
21:57 < Bluelads4> :) I can just volunteer when it's about relating the weapon stats with others but I can't write any quest at the moment I think...
21:57 < kymara> and monsterdhal - you said you had an idea but not yet started - I'd definitely recommend documenting it in your preferred way, 
                feedback is a lot easier then
21:58 < dust> i think snakes whip is a nice tool and balanced :)
21:58 < monsterdhal> it's not really a new idea, nobody knows about...
21:59 < monsterdhal> it's the players' houses in the atlas
21:59 < kymara> ah okay :)
21:59 < monsterdhal> I've started crawling around the code...
21:59 < monsterdhal> doing this and that on the way....
21:59 < monsterdhal> installing mysql.... getting marauroa....
22:00 < monsterdhal> but not really starting on that atlas thing...
22:00 < kymara> they all sound pretty useful long term, anyway
22:00 < monsterdhal> I think I will go on in the manner it will pull me...
22:01 < monsterdhal> and if I really proceed with the atlas idea, I will communicate it
22:01 < monsterdhal> that's my suggestion
22:01 < monsterdhal> :o)
22:01 < monsterdhal> will it be okay?
22:01 < kymara> yes, that sounds great, thank you.
22:01 < kymara> so, if it's a good time now to close the meeting can we do so? so that people can stop concentrating if they need to do something else 
22:01 < RedPawn> sure
22:01 < monsterdhal> yea
22:02 < Bluelads4> si