Stendhal Development Meeting 2012-01-23

21:02 < kymara> Hi, it's 21:00 server time now
21:02 < hendrik> hello
21:02 < madmetzger> hi
21:03 < Bluelads4> hello
21:03 < monsterdhal> hi
21:03 < kymara> What do you think of this agenda?
21:03 < kiheru> hi
21:04 < kymara> - summarise code changes since Stendhal 0.98 released
21:04 < kymara> - agree what goes into Stendhal 0.99
21:04 < kymara> - agree who and how for the remaining work for Stendhal 0.99
21:05 < kymara> - rough timeline for remaining work, testing and release
21:05 < kymara> It may be worth putting 0.99 in the context of Stendhal 1.0, too.
21:06 < hendrik> After the POTM release we discussed to only allowe serious bug fixes between 0.99 and 1.00
21:06 < hendrik> because there was a number of unstable things rushed into the POTM release.
21:07 < kymara> hendrik, can you explain why Stendhal 1.0 should be stable?
21:07 < hendrik> it's a round number.
21:07 < hendrik> It may be a good idea, to try to get some PR for it.
21:07 < hendrik> e. g. update all the links pointing to stendhal.
21:07 < kymara> And what about the option to progres from 0.99 to 0.100 or something like this?
21:07 < hendrik> writing to RPG portals,...
21:08 < hendrik> that would require a number of code changes.
21:08 < hendrik> as 0.1 is smaller than 0.99
21:09 < hendrik> and parts of the stendhal code use Float.parseFloat.
21:09 < hendrik> and I think it is time for a stable release after such a long time of development.
21:10 < kymara> What do others think? Does the current code (0.98 is okay if thats what you played) feel like a 1.0 product - stable, with complete features?
21:10 < Bluelads4> does stable release means, that every commited bug report should be fixed? :) or does this "only" include really bigger ones? :)
21:10 < Bluelads4> oh :D
21:10 < Bluelads4> sorry
21:11 < kymara> Bluelads4: that's okay. I would imagine the time between Stendhal 0.99 and Stendhal 1.00 to be like the code frozen stage after a release.
21:11 < kymara> i.e. only bugfixes allowed, no new code that may introduce new bugs?
21:11 < kymara> *code frozen stage before a release
21:11 < hendrik> "comitted bug report" ?
21:11 < Bluelads4> I meant the ones which are open on the tracker :)
21:12 < Bluelads4> commited was the wrong word I used :D
21:12 < kymara> I don't think we coudl fix all those
21:12 < kymara> Some are for example 'poison is removed on logout'
21:13 < hendrik> only the serious ones needs fixing.
21:13 < Bluelads4> there are currently some NPCs which are unused, maybe these could get at least some information which they can give for players so that each NPC is somehow used and needed, that might make the pic of a stable release a bit "rounder"
21:13 < madmetzger> I think if we manage to get PR and stuff we should try to have 0.99 as a release to get stendhal more stable
21:13 < hendrik> yes
21:14 < kymara> If we want Stendhal 1.0 to be a success we need to make very few changes since Stendhal 0.99
21:14 < kymara> which is why Stendhal 0.99 is important
21:14 * madmetzger nods * <nowiki>21:15 < kymara> So, are we agreed that we would like Stendhal 1.00 or 1.0 to follow Stendhal 0.99 and that the changes will be minimal, only that required for stability/playability?
21:15 * hendrik nods. * <nowiki>21:16 < madmetzger> yes, hendrik mentioned sth that might make it more unstable again
21:16 < kymara> I am not sure, about adding new NPC text, but that is 'well tested' from a feature point of view, so it might be ok. Just needs spell check I guess :)
21:16 < madmetzger> I mean the version stuff, so this would be also too risky
21:16 < madmetzger> yes, kymara
21:16 < Bluelads4> :)
21:16 < hendrik> which version stuff?
21:17 < madmetzger> 21:09 < hendrik></nowiki> and parts of the stendhal code use Float.parseFloat.
21:17 < kymara> hendrik: i think madmetzger means that changing the version handling to deal with 0.100 ></nowiki> 0.99 introduces instability
21:17 < madmetzger> yes, that is what I meant
21:17 < kymara> so it's an indirect argument for 0.99 to lead to 1.00 directly
21:17 < madmetzger> right
21:18 < hendrik> okay, but that is fine for 0.99 < 1.00 ~ 1.0
21:18 < kymara> though, i don't mind, if we have a bit of instability on a 'beta' release which we didnt' publicise in the way we discussed for 1.0
21:18 < hendrik> there are very deep changes in Stendhal and Marauroa.
21:18 < hendrik> for .99, i mean.
21:18 < kymara> Well, if we are agreed on 0.99 -></nowiki> 1.00 we can get onto that
21:18 < madmetzger> you mean sth like "1.00b1"?
21:19 < kymara> that would be the next item - code changes since 0.98 - and I have prepared something on it
21:19 < kymara> shall we move to that?
21:19 < hendrik> yes
21:19 < kymara> no madmetzger a beta release after 0.99 wiould be 0.100
21:19 < kymara> but i think we agreed on 1.0 now
21:20 < hendrik> consider 0.99 to be the beta.
21:20 < hendrik> or RC
21:20 < kymara> There are some major changes at http://arianne.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/doc/CHANGES.txt?view=markup which I invite you to read and I would like to highlight some other changes which might need to be added (pause while you read)
21:20 < kymara> ignore 'Added allotment rental in Semos mountains with new NPC ' - the new NPC isn't active/will be deactivated.
21:21 < kymara> these are missing from kiheru I think (not sure if major or minor so don't need to be included if very minor):
21:21 < kymara> Use dry grass at the mountain area
21:21 < kymara> Made bleach mode support coloured light (magic shrine in magic city?)
21:22 < kymara> Include ATK and DEF to the player strenght calculation when checking if attacking is allowed
21:22 < hendrik> the new lighing in Semos is amazing.
21:22 < kymara> Thanks, there are a lot of outside zones with new light now, actually.
21:22 < kiheru> coloured light includes all the doorway lights. they're slightly orangish
21:23 * kymara nods - but i need to check the magic shrine :) * <nowiki>21:23 < kiheru> the magic shrine is an example of abusing other blend modes than bleach
21:23 < kymara> okay. btw the idea of discussing the changes is to keep in mind what we want for 0.99
21:23 < kiheru> a trivial code change, but something map makers can use
21:23 < kymara> so, i also listed some missing ones, and I have more:
21:24 < kymara> Constantines Villa (bluelads4, but I think this is incomplete?)
21:24 < Bluelads4> exactly
21:24 < Bluelads4> currently working on the guard NPCs :)
21:24 < kymara> ok
21:24 < Bluelads4> but I'm not sure when I can finish them
21:24 < kymara> and then from hendrik:
21:24 < kymara> removed compatiblity code for Stendhal 0.62 from 2007 and added support for none zone related content
21:25 < kymara> implemented a DataLoader which can load resources from .jar files transmitted as content
21:25 < kymara> moved ingame version check from client to server
21:25 < kymara> marauroa updates
21:25 < hendrik> I need to document the DataLoader on the wiki.
21:25 < hendrik> the compatibility code was pointless, as marauroa is incompatible.
21:26 < kymara> and I have also noted the modifiable attribute changes and other 'magic related stuff' from madmetzger
21:27 < kymara> If I listed something here that isn't in teh change log but should be, could the dev who made it please add it?
21:27 < kymara> and is there anything else that we might need to decide, for inclusion in stendhal 0.99?
21:27 < hendrik> I will add my stuff later.
21:27 < osl> what is the status of translation?
21:27 < kymara> i mean, any changes i missed. we didn't start the 'what should be included yet'
21:27 < hendrik> osl, post 1.0
21:29 < hendrik> I think there may be some cleanup for magic.
21:29 < hendrik> madmetzger already started to work on that.
21:29 < madmetzger> yes
21:30 < hendrik> website: content security policy support
21:30 < hendrik> missing from changes.txt
21:30 < hendrik> videos?
21:31 < kymara> sorry I have not prepared any change log review for the website, I only looked at the Stendhal module.
21:31 < hendrik> i can do that, i guess it's my fault to not add that anyway.
21:32 < kymara> madmetzger, hendrik, are you liasing on what clean up is needed from the changes committed for magic?
21:32 < kiheru> screenshot action is new, I think
21:32 * kiheru has been lazy updating changes, again * <nowiki>21:33 < Bluelads4> hehe
21:33 < hendrik> kymara, yes we had a discussion in real life.
21:33 < madmetzger> and I started to work based on that discussion
21:33 < hendrik> and i guess we will have some time during the next days to look at it.
21:33 < hendrik> depending on how exhausting the evening program will be.
21:33 < madmetzger> yep, at least two longer journeys via train
21:33 < kymara> okay. hendrik, what about the marauroa changes and deep stendhal changes you mention?
21:34 < kymara> could you briefly describe the work on loading data?
21:34 < hendrik> the DataLoader changes went way deeper than I would have liked
21:34 < hendrik> The audio code used some self written resource management logic, instead of using the normal classloader.getResource().
21:35 < hendrik> So i had to rewrite that completely.
21:35 < hendrik> The DataLoader is basiacally a class used to load all resources (images, sounds)
21:35 < hendrik> normally, it will just use the classloader.getResource()
21:36 < hendrik> but if one or more .jar files have been transmitted using the content transfer, it will look there first.
21:36 < hendrik> it will never load code from there.
21:36 < hendrik> This will allow servers to provide new sprites.
21:37 < hendrik> ---
21:37 < hendrik> one the marauroa side, i implemented skippable perceptions
21:38 < hendrik> and I allowed longer ban status messages.
21:38 < hendrik> skipable perceptions work with the master client, it requires a peception_json server.
21:39 < hendrik> any questions?
21:39 < kymara> well, the question is around stability
21:40 < hendrik> I am pretty confident that they don't have negative impact, at least in their deactivated form.
21:40 < hendrik> but lots of testing is a good idea.
21:40 < kymara> allowing the server to provide new sprites is good for long term compatibility
21:40 < kymara> so it makes sense for stendhal 1.0 to have it (and thus 0.99)
21:40 < kymara> perhaps we could try test that too
21:41 < hendrik> a baloon for tad on testserver?
21:42 < hendrik> i will set that up.
21:43 < kymara> I'm not sure that i can commit to doing a huge press release in the next month.
21:43 < kymara> I guess I will end up doing a lot of the work for that
21:43 < kymara> But from a timeline point of view, maybe that is okay - madmetzger how long were you thinking your cleanup needs?
21:44 < hendrik> well, all the copy/pasting can be done by other people.
21:45 < madmetzger> i guess the clean up wouldn't take too much more time atm, at least it seems now, that a major issue breaking backwards compatibility is now fixed
21:45 < madmetzger> (hendrik asked for a specific bug)
21:45 < madmetzger> that can be closed, but there are some other things to look at still
21:46 < kymara> So shall we announce a code freeze soon so there doesn't become more to tidy up?
21:46 < hendrik> yes
21:46 < madmetzger> good idea
21:46 < RedPawn> Shall I commit my new NPC anytime I am ready with it? If someone has time to test it: fine. If not we can simply deactivate it.
21:46 < hendrik> RedPawn, yes.
21:46 < kymara> yes commit it
21:46 < RedPawn> all right
21:47 < RedPawn> still have to write the tests :)
21:47 < kymara> I will check over the allotment stuff and correct the changelog if necessary (I don't think it is activated, though)
21:47 < hendrik> no it is not.
21:47 < kymara> ok. please commit little and often so if only tests wait, commit those
21:47 < kymara> *commit those later
21:47 < kymara> then we can start live testing it.
21:48 < RedPawn> okay
21:48 < kymara> Is there anything else that we'd like for Stendhal 1.0 (i.e. 0.99)?
21:48 < kiheru> restarting the corpse owner timer is something when someone moves the corpse would be something that would be easy to do and nice to have. I just wasn't interested doing that when a player was being too noisy about the thieves
21:49 < Bluelads4> maybe it would be good to commit everything around constantines villa will be in the release after 1.0 (means, everything which is inside, the outside map changes can stay like that) so there would be enough time as well to commit constantine himself and a bigger quest around him
21:49 < kiheru> s/is something//
21:49 < kymara> Bluelads4: that sounds good to me.
21:49 < Bluelads4> ok :)
21:50 < hendrik> I need to fix the arianne version check.
21:50 < hendrik> or remove it.
21:53 < Bluelads4> hmm I currently can't start my client over eclipse...
21:53 < hendrik> oh
21:53 < kymara> is it ok if i announce a code freeze after kiheru's idea and the marie-henri npc then?
21:53 < hendrik> are there error messages?
21:53 < Bluelads4> I get a "Something nasty happened while trying to start your self build client: java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException"
21:53 < kymara> (i have a bug report to make about the magic shrine too)
21:53 < kymara> (NPE at at games.stendhal.client.gui.stats.StatsPanelController$HPChangeListener.propertyChange(StatsPanelController.java:218)
21:54 < kymara> after i teleported in and now i can't login)
21:54 < hendrik> Bluelads4, please make a bug report with all the details.
21:55 < Bluelads4> oki :)
21:55 < kymara> yep and i will too
21:55 < kiheru> hpchangelistener sounds like an issue with the attribute modifier stuff
21:56 < madmetzger> yes, seems likely
21:56 < kymara> yes, it's just weird i only got it after going there
21:56 < kymara> maybe sth started attacking me
21:57 < kymara> Can i try summarise what we agreed now?
21:57 < hendrik> yes, please.
21:58 < kymara> - Stendhal 1.00 will follow Stendhal 0.99 and will be a 'bug fix' release to ensure stability.
21:58 < kymara> - There are some changes made since Stendhal 0.98 missing from the change log which developers will add.
21:59 < kymara> - There is still some cleanup to do for Stendhal 0.99 but this is already in progress.
21:59 < kymara> - We will announce a code freeze soon after the last planned changes go in
22:01 < kymara> We didn't agree a timeline... but it feels like at least 2 weeks to tidy and test
22:04 < hendrik> I gues we should try to get the changes in rather quickly, and then try to convince people to test.
22:04 < kymara> (comments welcome if that's totally wrong)
22:04 < hendrik> I agree.
22:04 < kymara> Okay, but no pressure, I know people are pretty busy atm
22:05 < kymara> (no pressure on the changes I mean)
22:06 < kymara> Anything else to discuss related to 0.99 or 1.00 ?
22:07 < madmetzger> maybe we should do another meeting for discussing a bit marketing stuff for 1.00
22:07 < Bluelads4> that sounds like a good idea
22:08 < hendrik> After 0.99 ?
22:08 < kymara> I think so. we could announce that a bit in advance and invite contributors and players too, perhaps?
22:08 < madmetzger> yes, good idea
22:09 < kymara> It would also be good to facilitate bug reports before Stendhal 1.00
22:10 < kymara> If we highlight the reason why, it could help to ensure we hear about issues before the next release
22:10 < kymara> Shall we close now?
22:10 < hendrik> yes and yes.
22:10 < madmetzger> I think yes, getting tired
22:11 < kymara> Alright. Thanks everyone, ever so much, for making the time to come.
22:12 < RedPawn> thanks for moderation, kymara :)
22:12 < Bluelads4> thanks for setting the meeting up :)
22:12 < madmetzger> thanks for your efforts kymara
22:13 < kymara> :) thank you. always a pleasure!
22:13 < Bluelads4> :)
22:13 < madmetzger> :)
22:13 < madmetzger> then a good night from me now
22:14 < Bluelads4> night madmetzger
22:14 < kiheru> night madmetzger
22:14 < kiheru> thanks for the meeting to everyone

Stendhal Development Meeting 2012-01-23

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